Interview with LePoint Smith and Donna McCaleb OH# 384 / 2007.650

Interviewed by Emily Weaver and Dr. Cameron McMillen

Interview Date September 2007

Transcribed by W. Ray


EW:     Okay, this is Emily Weaver and I’m here with Dr. Cameron McMillen and LePoint Smith and Mrs. Donna McCaleb to conduct an oral history interview on the Historic Neighborhood in downtown Cleveland.  And we will be riding around in the DSU van looking at homes along the historic streets.

LS:                  It was on this lot.

EW:     There was a house right here.

LS:                  There was one.

DM:     It was a little house.

LS:                  A little house.  But I don’t remember anyone that ….

CM:                 We are next door to the Jack’s house.

LS:                  Yeah, that was originally the Townsend House.

DM:     Dr. Townsend.

EW:     What about across the street?

LS:                  This was always a house.  A friend of mine lived there who …

DM:     Narcissa…

LS:                  Yeah, Narcissa.

DM:     She had a dress shop there.

LS:                  Yeah.  Mattingly.  That was in the ‘50’s, ‘40’s or ‘50’s.  That’s not very long ago.

DM:     I don’t remember any house on the corner.  Do you LePoint?

LS:                  Uh huh.

DM:     Over there where the lawyer’s are.

LS:                  All these lawyers are newcomers.  This was all houses.  I’ve forgotten who lived there.

EW:     Now who lived here?

DM:     Dr. Townsend.

LS:                  Dr. Townsend.  He was a dentist and he built this house.

CM:                 Emily has just pointed to the Jacks’ house.  I’m doing that so we will know where we are.

LS:                  The Denton’s lived there for a while after the Townsend’s.  And (inaudible).

DM:     Young people call it the Denton House.

CM:                 Do you have memories of parties there or anything?  Visiting there?

DM:     Not in my day.

LS:                  They had a party for the Arts thing.

DM:     That was recently.

EW:     That was very nice.

LS:                  Cause Gerald Jacks had his office here.  And then he decided he was going to move to town and he sold this to his son.  So that’s Will’s now.  Will Jacks.

EW:     It still has Law Office on the plaque on the outside of the building.  Alright, well we’ll cross Shelby and keep going south.

LS:                  This was the Clark House. Mrs. E.T. Clark and her daughter Helen House lived here.  And their son LaValle who is my age, he is still living but he is not well.  He doesn’t live here.

DM:     Mimi Dossett lives here now.  And the Dossett’s bought it from LaValle didn’t they?

LS:                  Um hmm.

EW:     Do you remember much going on in that house?  Any activities.

LS:                  Yeah, I’m sure.  No, Miss Helen didn’t have any activities.  I think one time, LaValle and I had birthday’s close and one time when we were very small we had a birthday party.

EW:     Well just looking at the street, were the trees like this or was it more open.

DM:     It wasn’t this many trees.

CM:                 Do you remember this house across the street?

DM:     I don’t remember.

LS:                  What was the man that made clothes?

DM:     He was a tailor.  What was his name?

LS:                  I can’t think of it.

CM:                 Was it a wood house then?

LS:                  Yeah.

DM:     And I don’t remember any other old Clark’s.

LS:                  This is from Judge Clark – Governor Clark and General Clark – their descendents.

EW:     Related to Charlie Jacobs?

LS:                  Yeah they are related to Charlie.

DM:     I’m not sure of anything over there.

LS:                  There were not too many houses over there that I remember.  There were a couple of little smaller wooden ones.  I think they have been torn down.

EW:     Replaced with these?

LS:                  Yeah.

EW:     Now this one is interesting to us.

DM:     It’s been added to a lot.  This was built by Mrs. Owens in the ‘30’s.  And I remember they ate lunch with us everyday while they were building this house.  I don’t know where they lived until they moved there.  Her husband was Mr. Owen who had the – where the Coopwood thing is now.  On the corner?  That was the Owen Building.  They call it the Smith Building which is entirely wrong.

CM:                 This is 204 Pearman.

LS:                  Well it was built by Mrs. Owen.  Mrs. Thomas Owen.

EW:     It kind of stands out among the other houses around here.

DM:     It’s been enlarged.

CM:                 When was it built.

LS:                  The ‘30’s.

EW:     So what was the original structure?  You said it’s been added on to.

LS:                  It didn’t have that side there.  I think it had a screen door.

EW:     Wow, I can’t imagine.

CM:                 Was it considered modern?

DM:     Yeah.

EW:     Kinda different.

DM:     You know who lives there now?

EW:     Who lives there now?

LS:                  Routeman.

DM:     Routeman yes.

EW:     Oh okay, sure.  And then the boy.

LS:                  This was the C.R. Smith house.

EW:     Looks like they are doing a little work on it.

LS:                  And Dr. Adams lives in there.  But it went through several different hands after.  They left it to a niece and she was supposed to live there and she lived there a little while and then moved away from Cleveland.

EW:     Growing up, did y’all come down here very much?

DM:     I didn’t. These are Jinko Trees.  They are the only ones I know of in Cleveland.

LS:                  There’s one in the library yard.  But they had this whole block.

DM:     The house at the end of the street is the Byrd B-Y-R-D Rooming House.

EW:     Like we would have been riding right into it right now.

DM:     And it was the front of this house that I came across to a foot bridge and went across the bayou.  And that’s how I got to the picture show to the other part of town.  Across the footbridge.

LS:                  They don’t have that anymore.

DM:     And I think maybe this house might have been the only house on this street.

LS:                  The Aldridge’s lived on it.  Do you remember the Aldridge’s?

DM:     No, they didn’t live on this street.

LS:                  They did.  They lived right over there.

DM:     Betty?

LS:                  No, not Betty.  Another Aldridge family.  Same name, just different family.

EW:     So this apartment complex…

DM:     But it wasn’t there at the time, it was a wooden structure there.  It was a boarding house.  The footbridge went right in front of it.  Crossed the bayou.  And I always took rocks so I could hit turtles.

EW:     Did you ever hit any?

DM:   Yep.

EW:    Has this road – Pearman, always turned into – what are we on now?  Is this Roby?

CM:    I think.

DM:   But all of this was vacant.

LS:              They had it developed probably.  They had a lawn and everything.  It was pretty.

DM:   Corrinne was the daughter of Smith that lived there.  She was a mayor one time.  She was on the Board of Aldermen and the mayor died and she was mayor temporarily.

LS:              The left one is the Nott Wheeler house.  You’ve got pictures of it in the Bolivar County History Book.  That house and David Walt’s house and my house were the only three families that still live in the same house.  Now it’s not but two.

EW:    Yes.

DM:   Telephone Building there.

LS:              It wasn’t a rooming house it was the Wollard’s house.

DM:   Willard’s house.  But they had roomers because Gin Thompson –

LS:              Willard?

DM:   This was the Christian Church when I knew it.

LS:              But I don’t ever remember – this property belongs to the Wiggins Family.  And there is some restriction about what they can do with it.

EW:    Now we are on Bolivar.

DM:   Bolivar.

LS:              Where that apartment building is was the Echol’s Home.

DM:   And the service station – Wattie Bishop’s Service Station used to be right up here.

CM:    Where the Bean Counter is now.

DM:   Well, it’s this side of it now.

EW:    Y’all remember going to the gas station?

DM:   Oh yeah.

EW:    Now, was it like gas stations that we have today that you can go inside and get a cold drink?

DM:   Oh yeah, and they serviced your car.  Washed your windshield and they checked your tires.

EW:    Now, tell me again.  Who was it?

DM:   The Willard’s.

CM:    Is there a house here where (inaudible)?

DM:   The Echol’s.

CM:    Was the synagogue there?

LS:              Yes, it’s been there a long time.

DM:   I told them my tale about the man who painted the synagogue.  He didn’t put any nails in the wood.

LS:              The Camise’s always lived here as far as I know.  Do you remember anybody else?

EW:    Did it look pretty much like that?  Not much has changed? It does not have a front porch.  Screened porch.

LS:              It’s the Ford’s that live there now you know.  (inaudible)

EW:    Now, how about 203?

DM:   I don’t remember who lived there.

EW:    I’m aware that Mimi Dossett bought it and fixed it up.

DM:   But I can’t remember..

LS:              Terrible Day Care thing there.  It was awful.

EW:    That’s right.  She said the children…

DM:   No, it was the next house LePoint.

LS:              Well, this was where the day care was.  That was Boyd Atkinson’s.

EW:    Boyd Atkinson’s next door neighbor.

LS:              Which one of these was the McDearman?

DM:   Right here.

EW:    202.  Okay.  Now who was he?

DM:   He was an engineer.  Wasn’t he the county engineer?

LS:              I think so.

DM:   I know Jackie Hart lived there at one time.

EW:    It looks like it’s had a couple of additions.

DM:   If Boyd Atkinson lived there – I don’t know.  Now a Delta State person lives there.

LS:              That was Dr. McClain.  That was one of the original houses in Cleveland.  Dr. McClain.

EW:    This pink house?

LS:              It was built for him.

EW:    So y’all remember all of these houses, these structures being here, just not the people that lived here.

LS:              Well, just that one.  This one was originally the Brown’s built that house.

CM:    Who were the Brown’s?

LS:              He was president of Cleveland State Bank.

EW:    208.

LS:              But he built the house right next door to June.  The Brown house.  They started out with this one and this one was a Dr. Carpenter.

EW:    The next one down.

DM:   Have ya’ll ever talked to Eleanor Garrett?

CM:    (inaudible)

DM:   She won’t talk?

CM:    She told things to the person that did the original survey and we have those comments and she told us she had told her everything she knew.

LS:              Well all these houses were built about the same time.  This was the Carpenter House and that was the Coleman House.

EW:    That would be Molly’s Bed and Breakfast.

LS:              No, no.  The one in between.  This was the Coleman House and on the corner was Minnie Ray.  They made cookies at Christmas.  It was a boarding house too.

CM:    Emily, can you back up a little bit?  This concrete block and the horse behind it where people have put their – tied up their horses there…

LS:              That’s what it’s for.

CM:    212.  Do you remember people doing that sort of thing?

DM:   I remember it being there for as long as I can remember.

LS:              By the time we came along and I was born in 1920, the horses were not here.  They all had cars.  My grandmother was the first woman to drive in the county.

EW:    She did a lot of amazing things.  I can tell how the houses kind of share a similar shingled look that is the same as the Carpenter House.

LS:              The same people that built  – Nott Ward at the Lumber Company was the one that built them.  And Toots Davis was a man, contractor, do you remember Toots Davis?

DM:   Yeah, I remember him.

EW:    Toots Davis?  T-o-o-t-s.

DM:   His wife was a schoolteacher wasn’t she?

LS:              I don’t know.

DM:   I think so.

EW:    Now tell me about Molly’s?

DM:   Minnie Ray.  Her old maid sister lived with her and they made cookies at Christmas, I remember that.

LS:              Well they had a boarding house didn’t they?

DM:   Yeah.

CM:    Who used to live there?

EW:    Boarders.

LS:              She was a sister of Mrs. McPheetersthat lived on the corner of Leflore and Court and she had a gift shop where the library is.  Mrs. Mitty was Mrs. Hetty’s sister wasn’t she?  Donna, why don’t you have your hearing aids on?

DM:   I can hear you.

LS:              Isn’t that right?  Mrs. Mitty was Mrs. Hetty’s sister?

DM:   Yeah they were sisters.  Of course a lot of that trim stuff Floyd did.  That wasn’t on there.

EW:    Well you said they made cookies, Christmas cookies?  You had to come get them?

DM:   I had to come get them.  I lived on the next street.  And I always, they’d always give me a sample.  And they made Hebrew cookies which makes the house smell so good.

CM:    What are Hebrew cookies?

DM:   Cause they had whiskey in them?

CM:    What was located on 225?

DM:   That was all vacant.

EW:    Nothing here?

LS:              That was part of the Smith business.  And where my house is, the carriage house, was the garage.  But up in there they had a servant’s house.

EW:    So your house wasn’t developed until they built this building?

LS:              Wally Ashley’s father, Billy Ashley and two others – Jack Nowell and D.M. Fleming, traveled all around looking for town houses.  And then they bought this land, Billy did, and he built two of them, and he was going to go all around the corner but he died.  So, he didn’t build them, he built mine and the one next door on the other side.

EW:    Alright, well we’ll keep going.  We’re crossing Lamar.

LS:              Lamar is what this is, yes.

EW:    That’s right.

DM:   Well I can tell you about the first person that lived in this house.  Was a Mrs. Turner.  Mrs. Doc Turner.

CM:    300.

DM:   She was the one that used to make Mike weigh the ice before he brought it into the house.  Later on the Sawyer’s lived here.

LS:              The Berger’s before the Sawyer’s.

DM:   Who?

LS:              The Berger’s.

DM:   Oh, that’s right.

LS:              Jane and Jack bought it from the Berger’s.

EW:    Do y’all remember much going on there?  Did they have children?

LS:              I remember the Turner’s.

DM:   Which one?

LS:              The Turner’s.

DM:   Oh, the Turner’s did not have any children and the Berger’s had children.

LS:              Jack Sawyer had a studio.  Photography studio in the back and he added that little part of it.

EW:    And the Nott House across the street?

LS:              Um hmm.  That is one of the earliest houses in 1909.  All of these houses were built about the same time.  Nott Wheeler is in the oldest part right here.

DM:   He lives there now.

LS:              Except on North Pearman.

EW:    Now when we talked to Cherry and Nott, was it their generation or the generation before them that would have the big parties and dance.

DM:   His grandmother.

LS:              Yeah, Mama Nott.  We wore knickers and a cap.  Little bitty things.

DM:   Get on the golf course and hit the ball about ten feet and go hit another ten feet.

LS:              I had a friend who caddied for him and he said he never did count, he’d just go hit the ball and then he’d go hit it again.  I don’t remember a house here.

EM:             At 302?

DM:   I don’t either.

EM:             It looks like a small little house.

DM:   I don’t remember.

EM:             How about 305?

DM:   Do you remember who lived over here LePoint?

LS:              Jackie Faulker is the only one – also Sandy Stephens (J.D.’s family) lived in this block.  I never did know anybody else over here.

EW:    One of the Delta State policeman lives there now.

DM:   Well I don’t remember these houses.

LS:              You remember (inaudible) Bachman house.

DM:   Mrs. Bachman is the teacher that threw erasers at you.  Also held your hand like that and whipped you.

EW:    Oh no.  Did she live there?

DM:   She lived there yeah.

EW:    Did you go trick or treating at her house?

DM:   Uh Uh.

CM:    Did the house look pretty much like it does now?

DM:   Pretty much like it did doesn’t it LePoint?  But a lot more growth of trees.

LS:              Well I think it was better kept than this.

EW:    Do y’all know who lives there now?

DM:   Paul Kossman.

EW:    I think he rents out some rooms.

CM:    At least one student lives in the home.  I think there is more than one.

LS:              The Bachman’s didn’t have those tall things there.

EW:    The cypress?  And what about across the street, at 307?

DM:   I don’t remember.  I didn’t get this far (inaudible).  These houses I knew the back of them.

EW:    Then 308?

DM:   I don’t remember.

LS:              The next one was the Roby’s house.  Aunt Sydney’s house.

EW:    Roby’s and Sydney’s?

LS:              Roby.

EW:    So her name was Sydney Roby?

LS:              Sydney Roby.  She was Betty Williams’s aunt Donna.  Cause Betty lived here.

DM:   Oh this was the house that the man came out of the back and shot the shotgun when we were stealing his watermelons.

LS:              Was it this one?

DM:   Uh huh.

LS:              Was it Ed Roby?

DM:   I guess so.  It was just a man I didn’t wait to see who he was.

LS:              Mrs. Miriam’s brother may have been.  Mrs. Miriam was in the house on Pearman – Owen’s.  She was a Roby before she was married.  This was, I think Aunt Sydney had been married to some kin of Mother Hill’s people.

EW:    Do you remember it being screened in or was it open?

LS:              It was open.  But Sydney never had that carport thing.

EW:    Sure.  Did she have a car?

LS:              I don’t remember.

EW:    Okay, well what about across the street?

LS:              I don’t know anything.

DM:   I don’t know any of those either.

EW:    They are close to needing a little repair.

CM:    Or they are in the middle of a little repair.  It almost looks like they have scraped.

DM:   It’s been that way.

LS:              That’s Wally Ashley.  This was built by Nott Wheeler’s aunt, Dorothy Bacon nearly lived to be nearly a hundred.

CM:    And she owned the house that I live in.

DM:   Oh she does?

CM:    I don’t think she ever lived there.  If she did it was just a short period of time.  She rented it out.  Dr. Ringo lived there.

LS:              Who?

CM:    Dr. Ringold.

DM:   Ringold.

LS:              Dorothy Bacon owned it?

CM:    Yes.

LS:              She died a long time ago.

CM:    And I don’t think – as far as I can tell she never lived there.  She always rented it out.

DM:   This was the Hardee house.

EW:    At 315?

LS:              Ben Hardee.

DM:   He shot himself.

CM:    In that house?

DM:   I think he shot himself in his law office.

LS:              Her name was Lois.  She and my mother were good friends.  Her mother (inaudible) were great friends.

EW:    It’s a great front porch.

LS:              It was built like the Walt house.

DM:   It looks a lot like it – similar with added gables.

LS:              And that was the Ward house.  Nott Ward Lumber Company and this was the Ward house and then that other one on the corner and then it was the Nott house.  This was Ward.

EW:    Okay.

LS:              That was Audley Shands built that house.

CM:    And there’ s another place to tie your horse up.

DM:   Yeah.

EW:    Right there in front of the Taylor’s house? 400.  Okay, now tell me again who.

LS:              It was Dugas Shands.

EW:    Dugar?

LS:              D-u-g-a-s.  He was the son of Mr. Shands.

DM:   And Dr. Reese lived here for awhile.  Dr. Reese and Mary.

CM:    That’s 403.

LS:              But it was built by Dugas—Coopwood’s there now.

EW:    Very pretty.

CM:    What about this little house next door to them?

DM:   Can you think of the name of the couple that built that?

LS:              Is this Betty on the corner?

DM:   No, this one right here.  This little small one by Betty.

LS:              I don’t know.

DM:   I can’t think of who built that but I know them, I knew them.

EW:    Do you remember when it was built?

DM:   It is relatively new but I remember it being built.

LS:              This one was built in 1912.

EW:    The sidewalk stops right in front of the house.  It doesn’t go any further than right there.

DM:   Billy Ashley lived here at one time.  Povall’s lived down there.

LS:              But it was built by the Shands’.

DM:   The house on the left was built by – she was from Shaw.  Her father had the lumber company down there.

CM:    Simpson?

DM:   Yeah.  Who did she marry?

LS:              Which Simpson? Which one?

DM:   They built this house.

LS:              Billy Thomas?

DM:   I believe it was.

LS:              Mary Laura was a Simpson.

DM:   I believe that is who built this house.

CM:    That’s 407.

LS:              They ended up on Fifth Avenue.

DM:   Betty (inaudible) lives there now.

LS:              Jeff, DSU library director, bought that house on Fifth Avenue.

DM:   This is a relatively new house.  W.C. Ray lives there now.

EW:    But nothing was past the Shands house?

DM:   No nothing.

LS:              It used to be a house right down here but it would flood so that the city gave it to…

DM:   They had to move it.  Habitat bought it – got it.  We moved the house.

CM:    That’s the house that would have been right here?  Where did they move it to?

DM:   Moved it to Boyle.  They wouldn’t insure it because it was flooded.  And this house has been here a long time.

EW:    That little house?  310 Roby?

DM:   Uh huh.

LS:              Who lived there Donna?

DM:   He was a dog fighter.  Had a café down on the highway.

EW:    Has it always looked pretty much like that, just little?

DM:   It didn’t have the front porch coming out on it.

LS:              Was it Frank Thomas?

DM:   No, I can’t think of it.

EW:    Alright, well we are coming up on Leflore.  So we will pause and start at the top again.

LS:              Would have houses with the railroad – trains going down that way.

CM:    And this was highway 61 right?

DM:   Right.

EW:    So we are fixing to turn on Leflore and we are fixing to go north.  Now tell us about crossing the bayou right here?  Was the Chinese Church – I mean restaurant here on the south side of it?

CM:    It was a grocery store.

DM:   Yeah, that was a grocery store.  This was vacant all along here.  And the first tennis court in Cleveland was right about where that second house is.

CM:    Do you remember this house?

LS:              That house was built by Bob Somerville probably in the early ‘20’s or maybe before.

CM:    That’s 518.

LS:              About 18?

CM:    No, 518 is the address.  Was it a farm house?

LS:              No, she had a kindergarten there.  We, all of us had went to the kindergarten.  Went from kindergarten right to Hill Demonstration School in 1926.  We started out in the second grade because we had been to her kindergarten.  That was Mrs. Bob Somerville, Mrs. Keith Dockery’s mother that had the kindergarten.

CM:    Did Keith Dockery live there then?

LS:              Yeah.  She grew up there.

CM:    And it is real close to Victoria and set so far back from Leflore, was there a story about that?
LS:              Interesting.  They never used much the back entrance.  The Whittamore’s did that I think.  But it’s always had the front entrance and circular drive.  But Mrs. Keith after the kindergarten went to teach at the high school.

CM:    There’s a building beside it that looks like it might have been a barn or something and now has almost a little apartment in it.  It’s a guest house on the side by Victoria.  Was that built – do you remember that building?

LS:              It wouldn’t have been – it would be recently.

CM:    This is where the tennis court was at 517?

DM:   Uh huh.  Back in there.  It was a Chinese family that lived in a house.  I don’t think it was either one of these, but a house that was here.  And they owned the tennis court.

CM:    Did you have to pay to play?

DM:   No, we had to scrape the grass of the court.  It was a dirt court.

EW:    So none of these houses were here.

DM:   No, this was the Walt house right up there.  That’s where Dr. Walt’s grandmother and daddy lived.

CM:    That’s 513.

DM:   Which one was it LePoint?

LS:              I think it was this one.

CM:    That’s 513.

DM:   But I’m not sure.

CM:    What about the brick houses across the street?

DM:   They weren’t from here when I was here.

CM:    Would there have been a lot of traffic on this road since it was 61.

DM:   Yeah, it was a lot of traffic.

LS:              It was mule traffic when I was little.

DM:   Yeah.  Black topped too. It wasn’t near this wide.  Just about as wide as two strips down the middle.

LS:              We had three or four gins and the gins would be taking the cotton bales down to the compress.

CM:    Do you remember these two houses?

DM:   I remember – which one is it – no, I don’t remember either one of these.  I remember the last one up there.  A person named Cecil Wright lived in it.  I worked with her at the Welfare Office.

LS:              Which one is it?

DM:   The last one here, the little one.

EW:    505?

DM:   Um hmm.

EW:    Alright.  Well tell me about Toots.

LS:              That’s the Davis family there.  That’s probably one of the earlier houses.

CM:    Did we talk about him earlier, Toots?

LS:              Toots.  He was a contractor or something builder for Nott Ward.

CM:    That’s why his name sounds familiar.

LS:              This house was Bob – Abe’s Somerville’s home.

EW:    501.  Do you remember going in it?

LS:              Oh yeah.  The daughter and I were the same age.

DM:   Joy.

LS:              And I think I broke her china head doll.

EW:    Now is this the Sears house?

LS:              Who?

EW:    Is this the one that was bought from the Sears catalog?

DM:   No.

LS:              I don’t know.

EW:    Do you know about that story?

DM:   But it was out at Cleveland Crossing.

EW:    Oh okay.

DM:   It’s not there now that I know of.

LS:              Was the Dedwyler house out there….

DM:   Uh uh.

LS:              a Sears house?

DM:   Uh uh.

EW:    You know what I’m talking about?  You can buy them, order a house from the Sears catalog?  And they sent you everything, including the nails?

LS:              That was the Daves house I think and Lindsey Meadors family, I think his mother lives there now.

CM:    In the green house?

LS:              Uh huh.

EW:    I thought Mary Alice Cates lived there at one time.

LS:              She did.  She was a Meador wasn’t she?

DM:   Lindsey’s sister.

EW:    And then next to them?

LS:              That’s the Walt’s.

DM:   All I remember this house was built recently.

EW:    The Walt house?

DM:   The Walt house – that’s one of the old houses.

LS:               And one of the Walt’s girls – daughter’s, Rebecca and Lefty Rowe lived there Donna.

EW:    At 413?

DM:   What?

LS:              Rebecca and Lefty Rowe.

DM:   Oh yeah.

EW:    Well do y’all remember much going on at the Walt house?

LS:              Now this is Donna’s street.

DM:   I don’t. They didn’t have any – their children were older.  I didn’t – I could come down this far but…these are new houses.

LS:              This was Lefty Rowe and that was Judge Simmons.

EW:    408.

DM:   He was a judge.  Had twin nieces.

CM:    What about this one at 411?

DM:   I don’t remember, they are fairly new I guess.  I don’t remember them.

EW:    You were talking about something about a compress?

DM:   Back there – back of us.

LS:              It’s all but torn down.  It’s on Memorial Drive.

EW:    And the road was much more narrow?

DM:   I’m sorry, what?

EW:    The road was much more narrow?

DM:   Oh yeah.  Blacktop.

CM:    The compress was right where that big slab is beside it.  What about 406?

LS:              Is that the Simmons?

DM:   It was there and various families lived there.  But I don’t know who built it.

LS:              This was Mrs. Fleming’s house.  DM Fleming’s family.  But it is relatively new too.

DM:   I don’t know the little brown house.  But Mrs. Lidell lived in that one right there.

LS:              But the Jarrett’s lived there first.

DM:   Who?

LS:              The Jarrett’s.  Jule and Jerry Jarrett.

DM:   Oh yeah (inaudible)

LS:              They lived there before the Lidell’s.

EW:    It’s a nice front porch.

LS:              I think it was screened one time.

EW:    Alright.  What about this blue one.

DM:   Dr. Russell’s family.  (inaudible) Mrs. Russell.

CM:    That’s 400.

EW:    Alright, we’ll cross on over College.

DM:   This was the hospital.  (inaudible) the hospital.

EW:    There you go.

DM:   There wasn’t anything on the corner.  They were all vacant lots except that house right up there.

EW:    I’ll let this car pass.  Do you remember going to that house or hospital?
DM:   Yeah. That’s where I had my tonsils out.  I walked from my house to the hospital with my bag to have my tonsils out, by myself.

CM:    How old were you?

DM:   I was probably five or six.

EW:    Do you remember this house, 314?

DM:   Mrs. Fletcher lived there.  And then this house was a funeral home at one time.  A funeral home.  This is where my good friend Charles lived.

CM:    313 was a funeral home.

DM:   And that was where Charles Clark lived.  And she had apartments.  She had three apartments that she rented out.

EW:    In the house?

DM:   Downstairs and to the south and had three apartments that she rented out.  It has a basement.

CM:    Was it always apartments?

DM:   Well when she moved there it was a big house and then she didn’t need all that room….

LS:              And he died.

DM:   He died yeah, so she had apartments.  Most of them were rented to teachers – the one that taught at the high school.

CM:    Were they related to the Clark’s that lived in the house where Mimi Dossett lives?

DM:   Distant weren’t they?

LS:              Not real distant.  All those Clark’s (inaudible).  They are pretty close.

Her husband was Fred Clark who was I think the son of General Clark.

EW:    And it’s still now apartments?

DM:   Apartments.  I think so.

LS:              Uh uh.  I don’t think Gary had anybody renting, living in there beside (inaudible).

DM:   Well we had fun though.

EW:    What would you do?

DM:   Well, Charles’ brother sent him a picture machine.  We’d get in the stairs and go right up in the middle of the house. And we’d put a sheet up and show the films on there.  And the basement was fun in the summer, it was cool and we’d go down there.  And they had a servant’s house behind this house and we played there.  It was just a big house and cool in the summer.

EW:    The alley that runs back there.  Would y’all run up and down the alley.

DM:   Oh yeah, and the bayou behind there.

EW:    What did you use more, the road or the bayou?

DM:   Oh we used the bayou because we caught turtles, made rafts and dirt caves.

CM:    What is the name of the alley?

LS:              It was just the alley.  I don’t think they had any of the ones behind the houses named.  When was it built Donna?

DM:   I don’t know.  Our house was built in – well we moved there in ’25 and I think I was about two or three years old, but I believe this house was built before then.

EW:    Then it has got a little bitty house in its shadow.

LS:              Well, that was the Bryant’s house.   (inaudible)

CM:    310.

LS:              Before then it was a Wright house.

EW:    Wright?

LS:              Somebody named Wright, but they didn’t stay there very long.

EW:    It is awfully small.

DM:   The Bryant’s lived there.  He was a policeman.

LS:              Before the Bryant’s house, the Wright’s lived there.  They were friends of my mother and daddy’s.  But they moved to Memphis.

EW:    Were there many people to move in and out of Cleveland or did most people just stay here?

LS:              I think most of them stayed.

DM:   Most of them stayed.

EW:    Was it a big deal when you saw a moving truck or somebody new moving to town?

DM:   Yeah.  Especially if it was on your street.  I know that the Krutz’s built this house.

CM:    That’s 309.

LS:              What’s happening here?

EW:    Dana and Justin George live there now.  I think they are building a house next door to them.

LS:              See the Brown’s house burned.  And it was on this lot.  Jane Brown’that had the store on Hwy. 61.

EW:    (inaudible) company?

LS:              The Bishop house was right here. It was a great big house and it was torn down.

EW:    Where these duplex’s are now?

LS:              Wattie Bishop’s mother and daddy lived there.

CM:    I think they are building condo’s.

DM:             Well they might be.  But this house burned.  And this is my house.  This is where I live.

EW:    Do you remember when it burned?

DM:             Um hmm.  This is where I lived when I married.

CM:    That’s 306.  That one had pictures of your wedding didn’t it?

DM:   Um hmm.  It was very similar to that.  Had a screened porch.  My billy goat walked around those concrete – you can’t see them because they are on the inside.  He would walk around the concrete blocks and jump off.  Okay, the Brown’s lived over here and the Carpenter’s built this house.

CM:    Was the carport there when you lived there.

DM:   No, that’s all been added.  The carport and that room.  Travis Carpenter built this house.

LS:              But that was probably in the ‘40’s or ‘50’s.

DM:   Yeah, it was later on.

EW:    Now we are on North Leflore.  Now what was right here?

LS:              The Raines family.  An old Cleveland family – none of them live here now.

CM:    What happened to their house?

DM:   They tore it down.  And then the little two story duplex that they tore down.  It was a rental thing.  And then Judge Green lived here.

EW:    Did the church always kind of look – you can tell where the additions were.

LS:              (inaudible)

DM:   The Kamien house was right here on the corner.  And their garage was right about here.

EW:    But all this property belonged to them?

DM:   The Kamien’s?  I don’t know.  The church was built in 19 (inaudible).

LS:              Judge Green.

CM:    Judge Green lived at 107?  Is that Margaret Green.

DM:   Yeah.

CM:    Was that her father or husband?

DM:   Husband.

CM:    So Margaret Green lived at 107.

EW:    Did it always look like that?

DM:   I don’t think it had that carport on there like that.

EW:    Cause it kind of…

DM:   Looks funny.

EW:    Yeah. It kind of looks like it’s bent.

DM:   The carport was added on.  That definitely was.

LS:              The Kamien garage was about right here probably.  Cause this was added on.  This building to the church.

EW:    Okay.  109.  What can you tell us about that?

LS:              Edgar Brown built that.  He did live over on South Bolivar in one of those early houses.  He built this – there used to be a little green frame house there that burned and he built that, Mr. Brown, in probably the late ‘20’s.  Because this house was built in 1913 I think.

EW:    111.

LS:              That’s mine.

CM:    Emily can you stop a second?

EW:    I’m going to go past it.

LS:              That’s where I grew up.

CM:    Can you tell us anything about the house on Court that is now the Baptist parsonage and Lee Aylward lives there?

LS:              It was built by Mr. Kamien’s brother, Sol Kamien in – well, I don’t know when it was built because I remember it as a child.  And then the Litton’s lived there.  Sol and his wife, Selena, and his wife moved to California.

CM:    And there’s a swimming pool that belonged to that house right there?

LS:              That was done by Mrs. John T. Smith.  This is where the mayor of Cleveland lives right here.  Roger Johnson was the mayor about thirty years.  And he had a daughter exactly my age and we played together all the time and she died just recently up in Minnesota.  But Mildred Smith the middle house and then she bought this and tore down the house and built this pool house.

CM:    Where Ned lives was the pool house?

LS:              Mildred just built the pool house.  She lived in the house in the middle, right on the other side where Lee lives, was her home.

CM:    And 111 was where you lived?

LS:              Grew up.

EW:    Okay memories.

LS:              Well I wasn’t quite as wild as Donna.

CM:    Were those stained glass windows always there?

LS:              Yes.

CM:    They’re beautiful.

EW:    I’m going to back up just a bit.

LS:              Cause there was a house – we had a servant’s house back there and a …

EW:    So you can see it from the front (inaudible).

LS:              And there was another house right there on the lot.  It was a rental house.  The Outz’s lived there and the Kaplan’s lived there.  And the next house was the Rabbi’s house.  So I guess – Was Mr. Weinstein a Rabbi Donna?

DM:   He was a lawyer.

LS:              He was?

DM:   Uh huh.  Cause my mother used to say her three best friends husbands’ all killed themselves.

LS:              Mr. Weinstein did?

DM:   Um hmm.  Mr. Hardeen and Mr. Howell.

LS:              Well Mr. Weinstein probably couldn’t stand Fannie.

DM:   She would start at the Methodist Church and she would start blowing her horn for her cook to come out and to get the groceries out of the car.

EW:    You remember that?

DM:   She had rental property too and she’d go down the street blowing her horn on a Sunday morning to collect her rent.  They all came out of the houses to pay her their rent.

CM:    Was the rental house that was between the two houses – was that your family’s or hers?

DM:   Hers I think.

CM:    What happened to that house?

LS:              Moved. It was just plain moved.

EW:    So where would you have parked the car?

LS:              The driveway. We had a curve just like at the courthouse too – all the way around.  And I was thinking it might still be down that side but I don’t see any.

EW:    I don’t see anything.  Like where that magnolia is?

LS:              Um hmm. Is there a curb there?

EW:    No m’am.

LS:              There was a curb all the way around it.

EW:    Oh, the little concrete?

LS:              At the end?

EW:    Yes, that is.

LS:              It was all the way around.  We had a servant’s house in the back and then all the way back was an empty lot where we had a barn.  Had a cow and my daddy came in one day and he was getting ready to shoot the cow.

EW:    Oh no.  What had the cow done?

LS:              Had switched her tail in his face.  So my mother begged him not to kill the cow.  But they milked every day and we churned.

EW:    You did?

LS:              Yeah.

EW:    You made butter?

LS:              Yeah.  I spent – when Mrs. Doolittle started the Demonstration School, my grandmother built the duplex back there.  And Miss Doolittle lived there.  Do you know Miss Doolittle?

EW:    Oh yes.  Well I know who she is but I don’t – I know she’s sweet.

LS:              She was great.  She was headmaster, or whatever you called it then.

EW:    She was in charge.

LS:              Yeah.  We had a….

Side B

CM:    Wasn’t that the second side?  The first tape just stopped.

EW:    Alright so you didn’t care for the Demonstration School students?

Well what did y’all do to her?

DM:   They were strangers.

LS:              There were about twenty or thirty of us – there is a picture in one of the books up there of the class.  LaValle House is one of them.  He lived in that house on the corner where Mimi Dossett is.

EW:    Now you had brothers?

LS:              I had two brothers.

EW:    Were they older or younger?

LS:              Younger.

EW:    Younger?

LS:              Uh huh.

EW:    Did you tell them what to do?

LS:              I beat them up until they could beat me up.  And then I’d run upstairs and lock myself in the bathroom.  I was – they were both born in this house.

EW:    Where were you born?

LS:              In Memphis.

EW:    In Memphis.

LS:              The house was built – I don’t know why they took – she went to Memphis because they lived in Cleveland.  They lived over on Pearman until – when my mother and father married they lived on Pearman where the funeral home is.  And lived there until Mother Hill – she was living here by herself and she said, “Y’all come over here and live.”  And I think daddy said, “No.”  She said, “Well I’ll build a room on your house.”  So he said, “Okay.”  He gave in.  But it was a big mistake because it was always her house instead of my mother’s.

EW:    Yes.  I can understand how that happened.   So you grew up with your grandmother in the house with you?

LS:              Uh huh.  But we didn’t bother that three generations – that didn’t matter.

EW:    No.

LS:              It matters now.  People don’t want to have people living with them.  Any old people with them.

EW:    Would you do that?

LS:              No I wouldn’t do that.

EW:    That was a house full.

LS:              It was a house full.  One time we had four generations.  Her mother was there for a year or two.  Mother Hill’s mother.

EW:    Wow.  Is that what you called her?

LS:              Mother Hill.  That’s what I called my grandmother was Mother Hill.  And she intimidated everybody in town.  Didn’t she Donna?

DM:   What?

LS:              Mother Hill intimidated people.

DM:   I barely remember her.

LS:              She was a post master beginning in 1933 and was the first person in Bolivar County to drive.  She ran for Superintendent of Education the year that women could vote.  She was quite a human being.

EW:    She was up there.

LS:              Her mother lived there.

EW:    She and Lucy would have gotten along well.

LS:              Miss Lucy?

EW:    Um hmm.

LS:              They were friends.  But Gon-gar was her mother.  We called her Gon-gar.

EW:    Gongar.

LS:              And she was there for a couple of years.

EW:    Did y’all have special holidays or celebrations in that house?

LS:              Oh yeah.  June continued it more than we did.

EW:    What would y’all do?

LS:              Big Christmas’.  Gracious living. Very lovely dinners and stuff.  Christmas, Thanksgiving.  I don’t know what June is going to do now in her little bitty house.

EW:    Well we’ll keep moving on down the road.

LS:              That was Fannie.

DM:   Fannie Weinstein.  And there was a house right here that the Terry’s lived – no the Terry’s lived right there.  There wasn’t anything here.  The Terry’s lived here.

CM:    At (inaudible 226?)

LS:              And that wasn’t there.  And this was where Nan’s grandmother, Ann Steen, but it was originally Cully Roberts Sr. lived there.  And there were three boys that lived there that we all played with.  They even built a little ferris wheel out here in the yard.  But that house, Ann has done a lot to it.

EW:    Would you come over here when Ann was growing up?

LS:              She didn’t grow up here.

EW:    Oh okay.

LS:              I don’t know where the Nemitz lived – she was a Nemitz.  Where did they live Donna?

DM:   I don’t know.  I’m not familiar with this part of town.

CM:    She told us they lived at the Floyd Hotel for a while and then moved here.  But she moved to Cleveland, Ohio and back and forth some when she was growing up.

DM:   Yeah, cause her mother had the Floyd Hotel.

LS:              Her grandmother.

DM:   Grandmother yeah.

LS:              This house was not there but it was a house where William Earl Kent …

DM:   Yeah right.

LS:              And what was – Jewish family?

DM:   Jacob’s?

LS:              No, it was Miriam’s parents.

DM:   Right.  I can’t think of their name.

LS:              And this right here was a doctor – a dentist, Dr. Butler, Dr. Louis Butler.

He died and his wife stayed there.

DM:   Capps.

LS:              I really don’t know who lived much along here.  The Capps built this house.  Charlie’s – Charlie Capps’ parents.

CM:    212.

LS:              It was probably in the ‘30’s.  June McClendon lives there now.  It was some Jennings that lived along here Donna.  Do you know any Jennings?  Some Jennings lived in one of these houses.

CM:    Do you know anything about 207?

DM:   The Sibley’s lived there at one time.  He was a policeman.  Sibley.  But I don’t know who built it.

LS:              All of this was rental except the one that is down here – (inaudible) with all the windows.

DM:   The Shoenholtz lived along here once.

LS:              The Shoenholtz lived where all that glass is.

CM:    What about this one right here, the 209?

DM:   Mrs. Nunnaly I believe lived there.

EW:    Now who was she?

DM:   I think she is the one that had the boarding house.

LS:              Along here?

DM:   Along the left side over here.

EW:    That was a boarding house?

DM:   Well she had meals – you just came in for lunch.

EW:    Oh okay.

DM:   Just a noon meal.

EW:    And what about the one next to it?  211?

DM:   What was her name?

LS:              Mr. Ashley lived there.

DM:   Mr. Ashley lived there last.  But he didn’t buy it.  I don’t know who lived there before.

CM:    And this was the Shoenholtz at 222?

DM:   Mr. Shoenholtz was real active with the fire department.

LS:              And the American Legion.

DM:   That was Judge Roberts.  J.C. Roberts home.

CM:    213.

DM:   Where did the Nelson’s live?

LS:              There.  The Nelson’s live there.

EW:    After them?

LS:              After.  The Roberts built it.  They lived there.

EW:    It looked pretty much like that?

DM:   Probably didn’t have a carport.

LS:              Didn’t have a carport.

EW:    That’s a nice front porch.

LS:              It’s a nice house.  They had a son my age – the Roberts did.

EW:    Did you go there for any events?  Any parties?

LS:              I don’t know.  That on the corner was a rental house.  We had parties there.  Trixie Mackie lived there.  Had parties when she was there.  She moved away.  And this is the Sam Montgomery house.  You have to look up about Sam and Minnie Montgomery.  I think he was a Civil War veteran.

EW:    Well now on the second floor is apartments.

DM:   Where was the beauty parlor?

LS:              Around the corner.

EW:    Yeah, Ms. Mamie Sultens Boatwright lives there now.

LS:              Mamie.  Did Mamie buy this and live there awhile?  Now that was the rental property that faced Leflore and a lot of different people lived there.  Charlie Jacobs lived there at one time.

EW:    When it was rental property?

LS:              Probably.  They were moving back and forth between Rosedale and Cleveland.

EW:    I lived here.

LS:              Did you?  Mamie had already died hadn’t she?  I’m talking about (inaudible).

EW:    Yes m’am.  Just (inaudible).  And her beauty parlor was around the corner.

LS:              Where Boone has his law firm was a beauty parlor and then across the street they had the beauty parlor before they built that one.

CM:    I think if we did…

EW:    Okay.  Now we are on Bolivar.  222.

CM:    This one over here …

LS:              That was where the beauty parlor was wasn’t it?

DM:   On the corner, is that the corner?

LS:              Yeah.

DM:   And then the next one was the Williams house.

LS:              Kaplan?

DM:   Williams.

LS:              Oh that’s right.

DM:   Williams.

LS:              He ran Denton’s and …Howard.  One of Howard Williams.  He was the mayor at one time.

DM:   He was the sheriff?

LS:              Was he sheriff?

DM:   Uh huh.  He beat my dad.

LS:              Oh you remember that then?

DM:   I do.

LS:              This was Mrs. Winston’s house, I think a teacher at DSC.  And I don’t know what – did she teach anything?  What did she do Donna?

DM:   I don’t know.

LS:              I know she sang in the choir with my grandmother.

DM:   That’s Victor…

LS:              That’s Sherwood’s.  The Sherwood’s live there now.

DM:   This was Dr. Wiggins.

LS:              Wiggins.

CM:    215.  We talked about the Wiggins earlier.  But let’s talk about this before we go.  You said the Wiggins property or something earlier?

DM:   Uh huh.

CM:    Is that the same Wiggins?

DM:   Related yeah.

CM:    What about this house?

LS:              What other Wiggins?

DM:   Where did Vivian Kaplan live?  She lived right along here in one of these houses.

LS:              I don’t know which one it was.

DM:   I don’t know which one, they’ve been remodeled and I can’t….

LS:              But that was Dr. Wiggins and his son was A.C. and Lawrence.

EW:    What about this one?

LS:              I don’t know about that one it might have been Kaplan.  Somewhere along here the Kaplan’s (inaudible).  Moved this one and moved over to June’s.  But that was originally a Gynes house which was Charlie Capps grandmother’s.

EW:    213.

LS:              Yes it would have been.  But that was a Gynes.  And then it got to be rental property after the Gynes died.

EW:    Lovely.

DM:   See the concrete.  That is where that was around the house up on the corner of….

EW:    That Mimi lived in.

DM:   Brian Varner lived there – used to have that.

EW:    Alright.  Any of these others spur thoughts?

LS:              This was fairly new.  It was built by Roberta’s sister.  Viola Ingram.

EW:    Alright, I’ll keep going.

LS:              Miss Cora.  Didn’t Miss Cora live here?  Miss Cora Smith?

DM:   Um hmm.

LS:              And she was a sister to C.R. Smith and Milton Smith.

CM:    That’s 209.

DM:   Mr. Williford – which one did he live in?

LS:              That one.

CM:    Do you know anything about 207?

DM:   June and Nap used to live there.

LS:              But I don’t know who lived there – they didn’t live there in the late ‘50’s.

DM:   Did the Thweatt’s ever live here?

LS:              Who?

DM:   The Thweatt’s.

LS:              You mean Martin and Sue?

DM:   Her mother.  Mr. and Mrs. Thweatt.

LS:              Not that I remember.  I only remember them living close to the college.

Kay Strickland lives there now.

EW:    This one.

LS:              Frieda comments about that red door every time we pass it.

EW:    What’s wrong with that red door.

DM:   This was – the one on the right – Bradford.

LS:              It was the Graham house, Arthur Graham.

CM:    205.  And the Westbrook’s lived in it and then the Bradford’s.

DM:   He had the Chevrolet place.

LS:              I don’t know what Cousin Arthur did.  He was a cousin of my grandmother’s.  He and his wife built it.

CM:    And was there a house on the corner here?

LS:              Yes, that was the Perry’s.  This was Roberta Smith Wiggins.  And it was her daughter that inherited the one that lives behind me.

DM:   It was a big white house.

LS:              This was the Perry’s.

EW:    Why is it gone?

DM:   The Baptist’s bought it and tore it down.

CM:    We heard that was the oldest tree in Cleveland.

LS:              I wouldn’t know.  It used to be the church was on this corner and there was a little house right next door to it and then a duplex right next door to that in here.

DM:   And the jail used to be on this side of the court house.  Three stories.

LS:              They said they would hang people.

EW:    Mack Grimmett still talks about it.

DM:   And this is where Sol Kamien built his house and used to have a porch across the front and…

EW:    Beautiful door.

LS:              The Litton’s lived there and some other people till Mildred bought it probably – Mildred probably bought it in the ‘40’s.  And they built the pool house pretty quick.  Tore down Mrs. Rhea’s house.  With a load of cotton.

DM:   School’s going to be out in a minute.

CM:    It’s a good thing we are doing Pearman now.

EW:    Traffic is never quite so entertaining as it is when school starts back again.

DM:   (inaudible)

EW:    I’m telling you.  Start directing some traffic.

DM:   Now this was the famous Keen Freeze.

LS:              Yeah where it used to be.

DM:   Yeah that’s where the Keen Freeze used to be.  My husband had it.

EW:    I’m sorry?

DM:   To the right, the Keen Freeze was right here.

CM:    Where the (inaudible).

DM:   Right in the middle of this lot.

CM:    The UPS truck is bringing me an order today from (inaudible).

EW:    Lots of good things happened at the Keen Freeze?

DM:   Oh yeah.  A lot of good food. (Inaudible) last food place.

LS:              I don’t know anything about this.

DM:   Little Bun lives there now?

LS:              Who?
DM:   Little Bun.

EW:    Who’s Little Bun?

DM:   (inaudible)?

LS:              Yeah.

DM:   What was her last name?

LS:              Davidson

DM:   At one time there was a park over there.  One summer.

EW:    Where the medical care is?

DM:   Yeah.  Just for one summer they had a park, supervised activities, Chinese checkers.

LS:              Where?

DM:   Over there where that building is to your left.

EW:    Do you know more about that house?

LS:              Little Bun lived there?

DM:   What’s her last name?

LS:              I can’t think of it Donna.  I’ll go get my UDC book and she’s in there.

EW:    Alright the next one?

DM:   (inaudible)

LS:              That house is old.  It’s probably the oldest in town.

DM:   It was the Pearman house.  Mrs. Pearl lived there.

LS:              I think that is the oldest house in town.

EW:    It says 1884.

LS:              Right along in here and on Pearman, I mean on South Bolivar are the oldest houses.  This one and there was a little frame house where the funeral home is.  I think that was where my grandmother lived before they built their house.

CM:    We are on Pearman now.

LS:              I don’t know who built that house.

EW:    Was one of these houses moved to this site?

CM:    The one on the corner.

EW:    Let’s go down there and talk about that.

DM:   That was recent.

EW:    What about all those businesses across the street?  Was it open to (inaudible)?

DM:   Wasn’t any of these buildings for a long time.

LS:              The American Legion was down here.

DM:   Yeah it’s an older building.  The welfare office was in about ’50.

LS:              This was where my grandmother lived where I was living before she made us move over to the big house.  Right here.

EW:    Where the Brandon Mortuary is which used to be Thweatt-King.

LS:              And then nothing along here except that this was the American Legion, wasn’t it Donna?

EW:    This building.

CM:    No, this one.

LS:              The welfare office was the Legion Hut.  Yeah, it’s an old building.  They used to have dances there.

EW:    Shindigs and lots of fun?

LS:              What are the blue things for?

DM:   I don’t know.

CM:    Child welfare, like the young ones are – child abuse.

LS:              Is this the house that was moved?

CM:    No, the next one.  This is the Joe Smith house.  It was built in 1905.  I can read the sign.

LS:              This is an old house.  This was moved over there close to the Cleveland State Bank.

EW:    Okay this house?

LS:              Uh huh.

CM:    This was the Baptist parsonage?

EW:    Oh I see.  And it once stood where?

LS:              Across town by the Cleveland State Bank, somewhere in that area?

DM:   1888 to 1907.

EW:    The one on the highway.

LS:              No.

EW:    Oh, I know what you are talking about.

DM:   This was Denton’s where we all swam.

CM:    And the pool was just behind this building?

DM:   Yeah.

CM:    Behind the building.  Right up here where the sign is.

DM:   And the marker.  You see that marker right there?  They let out school for all of us to come up for that dedication.  Whatever it was, I don’t know.

LS:              This used to have a glass front – this used to be a car place.

DM:   And they had sandwiches and ice cream.  And behind it was the swimming pool.

LS:              Our mother’s used to blow the horn and get a coca-cola.

EW:    What do you think they would do if we just drove up and honked today?

LS:              I don’t know.

EW:    Just look at us funny?

LS:               And at one time when these lots were vacant they had a skating rink in there.  You know one of those where they would have big tent people come there.

EW:    Big tent people?  Circus people?

LS:              No, it wouldn’t be a circus.  It would be a revivalist.

DM:   This building over here used to be a health department at one time up on the second floor.

LS:              It was the Owen Building too.

DM:   And they need to fix that back?  And say Owen instead of Smith?

LS:              Yeah, the Owen Building.  Mr. Owen built it.  The one that lived down the street.  And then he died in the flu epidemic in 1919 or 1918.

DM:   I’d walk up those steps and get my typhoid shot.

EW:    You took yourself to get shots?

DM:   Yeah.

EW:    Oh bless your heart.

DM:   It hurt too.

EW:    Yes.

DM:   And it was sore too.

LS:              Mr. Owen – Mr. Roberts might have been in with him…

DM:   See the long – see the concrete.

LS:              That was around my house too.

DM:   And they had a café in there called Mattie’s Café right along here.

EW:    Right along in here?

LS:              It was part of the drug – part of the service station.

EW:    Oh okay.

CM:    Do you remember anything about this house?

DM:   Yeah, this was the Nowell’s house.  Nowell Lumber Company?

LS:              That’s where Jack grew up.

CM:    I think this was the best thing to do and miss the school traffic.

LS:              This was the Causey house.  This is where the Catholic Church was.

CM:    Right there where those apartments are?

LS:              Uh huh.  First Catholic Church.

EW:    Alright.  What about those sidewalks?

DM:   Must have been put there by them.

EW:    Do you remember that at all?

LS:               That was the Causey house.  Mr. and Mrs. Causey were married in my grandmother’s house.  He was a lawyer and she always walked about two feet behind him.

DM:   No, he wouldn’t let her walk next to him.

CM:    Do you know when or why they put that stone fence surround?

DM:   No, I don’t know.  People who lived there just put it up.

EW:    Alright we are taking – is this First – to get to Victoria.

DM:   I don’t know much about this street.

CM:    This isn’t going to be a part of the neighborhood.

DM:   Okay.  Cause this was the low part of town, it got under water.

EW:    Well from the rain yesterday it still has got a little bit of dribble.

LS:              Dot was on Third – Second?

DM:   Yeah.  (inaudible) on this street.  (inaudible) house over yonder.

EW:    In that church?

CM:    This is 600.

DM:   LePoint, who lived in that old house over there?

LS:              Davis.

DM:   Davis, yeah.

CM:    This is 600 Sunflower Road.

LS:              Jack Davis and Dot Davis.

CM:    This house on the corner which is Tindle’s dentist was Julia Moore’s grandmother’s house.

LS:              Gibert.  But it wasn’t like that.  This house, H.L. lived in it, Martin and Sue lived in it.

EW:    H.L. Nowell?

LS:              Uh huh.

EW:    Really!

DM:   (inaudible) the Feduccia house.

CM:    The brick one?  The yellow brick one at 214?  We are on Victoria now.

LS:              That is – what’s – Betsy Bobo’s mother lives there.

EW:    Really.

CM:    AT 214?

LS:              Is that the first house?

EW:    Yes.

LS:              I think that’s it.  It might have been the next one.

DM:   No, that’s the Feduccia house.

EW:    That’s the Feduccia house at 214?

LS:              I think so.  I think the next one is the Bobo house.  Yeah, that’s the Bobo house.

CM:    That’s 212.

EW:    That’s where Betsy grew up?  Okay.

LS:              Um hmm.

CM:    What about 217?  It has recently been painted and remodeled.

EW:    These are little – the houses are so close together.  Were these houses always like this?

LS:              I think they are fairly new ones.  There’s one down here that my grandmother – a little bitty house that she built for rental property.

EW:    What about 210?

LS:              Yance Ray lived along here didn’t he?

DM:   Who?

LS:              Yance Ray.

DM:   On up a little bit further yeah.

CM:    Do you remember anything about 209?

LS:              I don’t.  Oh this was where Cousin Lillah lived Donna.

EW:    207?  And who was Cousin Lilah?

LS:              Lila Mitchell.

CM:    And 207 is where Jenny Lucas grew up.

DM:   2 – 0 what?

CM:    207.  Jenny Lucas grew up there.

DM:   Yeah.

LS:              In this one? Her mom and dad were named Sanders.  That’s where they lived.

CM:    But who did you say?

LS:              The Mitchell’s.

CM:    Lilah Mitchell?

LS:              They lived over in (inaudible) and moved over here because Mother Hill was over here I guess.  She had a black – a young black woman that lived with her and I played with her all the time.  I mean with Jaunita Mitchell.  And she brought her with her from the hills and she – I used to go to the picture show and we’d go upstairs and sit with her because she couldn’t sit downstairs.

EW:    Oh.  Which theater?

LS:              She finally ran away.

EW:    She ran away?

LS:              She could read and write and it was a terrible place for her to be.

EW:    Any of these other houses ring bells or memories?

LS:              This might have been the Mitchell house.  Mother Hill built that little house just to rent.

CM:    203 was the rental house.

LS:              And she sold it to somebody.

CM:    Do you know anything about 202?

DM:   Kearneys.

LS:              This was the Yance Ray house.

DM:   No it’s not.  Yance Ray’s house is up on the corner.

LS:              This is a corner.

DM:   The other corner.

LS:              The corner down there was the Nowell’s.

CM:    Do you remember 201?

LS:              I don’t.

DM:   I don’t.

LS:              I’ll bet that was Yance Ray’s house.  I’ll argue with Donna.

DM:   I’m going to argue with you.

LS:              This corner you think it was?

DM:   Um hmm.

LS:              Right there?

DM:   Um hmm.

LS:              Well who was there?

DM:   I don’t know.

EW:    Do you know anything about 117?

LS:              I don’t.

DM:   It might have been a little house for the Hill Building.

CM:    This is the one that we’ve been told was the Methodist parsonage and then we’ve been told that’s not true.  But the windows are so dirty you can hardly tell.  Three up at the top of the two side windows, and I believe the one over the front door are all stained glass.  Do you know anything about that house or whether or not it was the Methodist parsonage.

DM:   No I don’t. It looks like an old house.

CM:    Do you know anything about this house across the street.  It’s 114.  And it’s the only one on this block that the electricity comes from highway 8.  The rest of us all come from that transformer back there.  So we think it may be the oldest one.  When the rest of us lose electricity they still have it.

DM:   They still have it huh?

CM:    Do you know anything about that house?

DM:   No, I don’t.

CM:    And I think Nancy Bobo at some point lived in this brown house.

DM:   At one time the Bobo’s lived along here.  I don’t know.

CM:    I’ve been told it is that brown house.

DM:   May be.

CM:    Some of the things we’ve been told have turned out not to be true.

LS:              Well Nancy Bobo is sort of Elliott isn’t she?

CM:    Do you know anything about this?

LS:              One of these was Dr. Ringold’s.

DM:   Um hmm.  That’s where she lived.

CM:    And that’s the one with the flag and that’s where I live.

LS:              And this is the duplex that my grandmother built.  That’s why it’s straight behind my house.

CM:    And it’s a little bit more attractive than some of the others. Do you know anything about this house LePoint?

LS:              This one?

CM:    Um hmm.  Other than Dr. Ringold lived there?  That’s my house.

LS:              That’s where you live?

CM:    So I’m real curious.

LS:              Sadie Mae.  Where did Sadie Mae live?

CM:    I don’t think she lives in Cleveland.

DM:   No she didn’t.  The Beevers lived in that house.

CM:    That would be 108 – 106 I believe.

DM:   And Mrs. Darby lived here.

CM:    At 107.

DM:   (inaudible) Darby.

CM:    (inaudible) said she had lots of roses.

LS:              Um hmm.  Mrs. Darby and then…

DM:   Mrs. Hayles.  It must have been Mrs. Hales lived in the next house.

CM:    And that would be 103.

LS:              Dr. Daughrity built this house.

CM:    104 Dr. Daughrity – what was his name?

LS:              Dr. Daughrity.  He was at Delta State.  English.

CM:    And we also heard that there was a house between the Sledge’s house and this house.  Do you remember that?

DM:   Here?

CM:    In here.  There was a house here that burned and then Steven said there was a house between those two houses at one point.

LS:              Elmore lives there now.

CM:    At 101?

DM:   Uh huh.

CM:    Who lives there?

DM:   Uh huh.

CM:    And who is that?

LS:              I think he was a pretty prominent man in Cleveland and he must have died young or something.  I don’t know.

DM:   It’s one of the older houses too.

LS:              Mrs. who lived there?

CM:    Do y’all have any memories of the big old house on the corner of Court and Victoria?

DM:   I call it the Dakin house but LePoint said there was somebody there before them.

LS:              It was.

CM:    Did they ever have parties or entertain?  Or a place that people went to a lot.

LS:              That house was built for Corrinne Smith when she married McLemore and it was their house and the wedding didn’t last very long.  But that was the first wedding in the Methodist Church and then they built this house and then Mr. – who was the bootlegger Donna?

DM:   Wakefield.

LS:              Wakefield.  And then the Wakefield’s had it and then after the Wakefield’s –

DM:   When did the Dakin’s get it?

LS:              Well the Dakin’s lived in one of those little houses where they used to have right by the Baptist Church on that place right in front of my house – Court.  And the Wakefield’s had it and Uncle Ed bought it.  Mother Hill’s – when he and Alice married. And then later on he swapped that house – this house for the little house there by the Baptist Church.  And the Dakin’s go from there. But Sarah Ann was born here.  She was born about 1933 and so he – that’s when Uncle Ed had it.  It was just a wonderful house. It’s just a shame…

DM:   All one room upstairs.

LS:              But it’s a shame that – and the Sweet woman, Hattie Davis, had done so much for us.  And she got the – she had the history of it all done.

DM:   They used to teach out at Delta State.

EW:    I said Mrs. Sweet for ages.  I had a party out there.

DM:   Did you know her?

EW:    Yes m’am.

DM:   They did a lot of work.

EW:    They did a lot of work out there.

LS:              It’s a shame – they say it’s on a slough is the reason that it’s …

EW:    You can see the brick coming apart.  Coming off the walls.  Right there, you see it where the gutter is how it’s breaking apart?

DM:   They had done a lot of work on it inside.

LS:              And that is a misnomer saying that’s a carriage house.

DM:   I always thought it was.

LS:              It was built at the same time that this house was built.  It was really just a garage because it was built in 1920 and they didn’t have carriages then.

DM:   They’ve recently done a lot of work on the foundation on this house.  Etta Race (inaudible) lived there at one time.

LS:              They lived there a long time.

EW:    Now what about across the street?  105 where the church is?

DM:   I don’t know.

CM:    This was built in the ‘50’s and that was a duplex – 107 was a duplex.  Where did the Cable’s live?

LS:              Around the corner.

DM:   Okay.

LS:              I think where Emmett lives.

EW:    We’ll go on south.

LS:              This was a Tim’s house.  Lowry Tims.  And that was built by one of the Myer’s daughter’s and her husband.  Carl and Mary Jane Nichols built it. I think they put a couple of shotgun houses together.

CM:    That’s 201.

LS:              Now Johnny Arnold, well Jimmy Sanders lived there.

DM:   John lives there now.

EW:    Okay 206.

DM:   This is Mrs. Eason’s house.

CM:    Who is Mrs. Eason?

DM:   Eason.  They had Planter’s Equipment.  I think 203.

LS:              That’s one of the Fleming.  D.M. Fleming’s wife.

EW:    When y’all were growing up, when you were younger girls, how much of this street was here?

DM:   Not any of these houses.

EW:    Not any of these houses?

DM:   Not I can remember.

EW:    The east side or the west side – both of them were pretty clear?

DM:   Pretty clear.

LS:              The Myer’s might have been – the little one.

EW:    The little one bedroom.

LS:              One of the Myer’s daughters.

DM:   Ruby Rovenhorst built it didn’t she?

LS:              No she didn’t build it.  Sister and Cully built it.

EW:    Anna Long used to live there.

DM:   She lived in a lot of places.

EW:    This is true.  What about any of these?  When did these come around?

DM:   These houses?

EW:    Mhmm.

DM:   ‘30’s.

EW:    So y’all watched them being built?

DM:   And this was the Carpenter’s house.

CM:    And that’s the one where the fire was?

DM:   It wasn’t like that, I mean it’s been remodeled.

CM:    But was it this house?

DM:   Yeah it was the house.  It has just been remodeled.

LS:              Where is Penny’s house?  Have we passed it?

DM:   That’s what they are doing to the house we fixed.

LS:              Is that Penny’s house that they are doing?

DM:   No, the one next to it.

LS:              Well T.D. Wood said his house was built in ’39.  Penny and Willard’s house and Lemon’s across the street.

DM:   There’s Mrs. Lemon’s and Willard Samuel and Penny.

LS:              Well Happy Pleasant lived along here.

DM:   They lived in the house right behind my house because we sold the lot to him.  Probably this house I believe.

EW:    305?

DM:   I can’t remember.  Directly behind my house on Leflore Street.

EW:    I believe it is.

DM:   This one?  This was the Janoush house.  The old Janoush house.

LS:              Which one?  The white one?

DM:   (inaudible) was a friend of mine and we used to go – there was a bayou behind his house that I crossed.

CM:    And that’s 311.

DM:   Um hmm.

LS:              Happy – the Pleasant’s had a – Thelma (inaudible) had a house behind it.

DM:   Thelma did?

LS:              Um hmm.  (inaudible)

DM:   This house has a storm cellar on the side of it.  Had a storm cellar.

EW:    311 did?

DM:   Um hmm.

LS:              Whose was it?

DM:   None of these houses.  There was one house on this side but I can’t remember which one.

CM:    Do you remember when this house was built?

DM:   No.

CM:    It’s the only Frank Lloyd Wright house in town – inspired house.

DM:   Frank Lloyd – oh.

CM:    It’s 310.

LS:              Inspired by him?

CM:    Inspired house.

LS:              Well you don’t know who built it?

CM:    No I don’t.  Do y’all remember it?

DM:   This house is one of the older houses.  That lady always promised to pull my teeth because I bit.  I don’t know who she was.

EW:    Are we ready to keep going on down?

CM:    I think we need to go to the curve.

LS:              I don’t think we know any of these.

EW:    Do what?

CM:    I think we need to go as far as the curve.

EW:    Oh, I thought you said the curb.  There’s a car coming.

LS:              There was some Chinese people that lived here.  The Bob’s lived over there.  Remember the Bob’s.

DM:   Uh huh.

LS:              Bob’s Drug Store downtown.

EW:    Okay, the Chinese lived here on this corner?

LS:              Uh huh.

EW:    Was this always empty over here?

DM:   It was a gravel road when I was little.

CM:    We are across College.

DM:   The Crutcher’s.  Didn’t the Crutcher’s live there?

CM:    The house on the southwest corner is Bob’s house.

EW:    403.

DM:   The Valentine’s live right there in that gray house.  You know Sara Martin or whatever her name is.

CM:    That’s 407.

DM:   The Meador’s lived in the yellow house.

EW:    I don’t know Sara Martin.

LS:              He is the youth person at the Covenant Church.

EW:    Oh yeah.

CM:    That’s 409, the yellow house.

LS:              Why is Jay’s name listed on my bulletin?

EW:    My Jay?

LS:              Uh huh.

EW:    Cause he was a member there.

LS:              Why did he change?  Cause he didn’t like the stain glass windows?

EW:    Okay back on the houses.

LS:              I might have lost my train of thought.  Donna has relatives in that yellow house.

DM:   That’s Jim Hunter’s house right there.  His daughter lives in the yellow one too.

EW:    This yellow one?

LS:              The Austin’s live back here somewhere.

DM:   Seawright Florist lives right there?

CM:    The florist business was here?

DM:   Um hmm.

EW:    It doesn’t look like anybody lives there right now.

DM:   No, I think they’ve locked it.

LS:              Nancy lives here I think doesn’t she Donna?

DM:   Who?

LS:              Nancy Seawright.

DM:   I don’t know where she lives.

CM:    That’s 415.

LS:              She might still live where the Florist was.

EW:    Do y’all know who lives there?

DM:   The Austin’s lived there at one time.

LS:              And the B and P W think down here.

EW:    My aunt lives there now.

LS:              Your aunt lives there?

EW:    Trudy Erwin.  She was Trudy Holder.

DM:   All these houses in here – it’s amazing.

LS:              Now which was the – yeah, that was the B P and W house?

CM:    This one right here – the gray one with the big apron.  I’ve read about it and it said it had a lot of concrete in front of it.

LS:              Is this your aunt’ s house?

EW:    She lives in the one – the brick one.

CM:    What is that, the Business and Professional Women?  And this would be the parking.

LS:              Clover Shaman married and divorced and came back and they bought the BP & W and she fixed it up as a house until she and Lawrence married.

DM:   LePoint I think that’s one back yonder.

LS:              Another big…

DM:   I think the BP & W Club is the only one…

CM:    In the book it says it has a lot of concrete in the front.

LS:              Is there another one with a lot of concrete?

DM:   No, but I think at one time they owned another house.  The one she fixed up.

LS:              The one she fixed up was this one.

DM:   Was which one?

LS:               This one.

DM:   Okay.

EW:    Alright.  How far does it cut off to Cam?

CM:    To the curve.  To Frank’s house.

LS:              This is next door to the Somerville house.  And that was Mrs. Lucy’s house right there.

EW:    That was Miss. Lucy’s house at 515?

LS:              That was Miss. Lucy’s.

CM:    And this is the back of 518 that we talked about on Leflore.

EW:    I had never noticed.  The Ellis’ live there now.

LS:              John Ellis.

CM:    Emily let’s go down Shelby.

EW:    Okay.

CM:    I think that’s the only street we have not been on.

LS:              Didn’t Bill Ellis build this house Donna?

Tape paused.

LS:              Who besides the Cable’s lived there Donna?  This house.

DM:   I don’t know.

LS:              And Emmett Smith lived there.

CM:    Jenna Simpson lives there.

LS:              Emmett Simpson.

CM:    Who were the Cable’s?

DM:   He was with the – was he with the Bank of Cleveland?  Mr. Cable?

CM:    (inaudible) for a Cable to be with the electric company.

LS:              I can’t think of her name.  Lee Nance and Dick lived there Donna before Emmett.  They lived there before they built their house.  This was a duplex or something because Hope Sanders’ mother lived there.

EW:    And there is the misnomer carriage house.  Alright.

DM:   Speakes live there.

CM:    Leland Speakes?

DM:   Was it Leland?  No, his brother.

LS:              I don’t know who that is.

EW:    Is this the last one Cam?

CM:    I think so and this is the Catholic’s.

EW:    The big yellow was the Catholic’s.

CM:    That’s 510.  Do you know anything about 511?

LS:              Yeah, that’s where Ruth Robb lived.  Mrs. Robb was Mrs. Chester Robb.

DM:   Yeah.

CM:    I guess this is a real alley in the historical district.

DM:   Mr. Feduccia built this house over here and he had a sister who was real small so all the cabinets are a lot lower than they normally would be.

LS:              There was where the Catholic priest lived but the church was right here.  Faced …

EW:    Court Street?

LS:              Court Street.

CM:    Can you think of anywhere we haven’t seen?

EW:    I think we have seen it all.

DM:   The park.  I hunted in the park.

EW:    You hunted in the park?

DM:   Had a persimmon tree.

EW:    You know Jody Correro was telling us about the persimmon tree.

CM:    And somebody told us that there were – do you remember about the trees on Leflore?

DM:   No.  Down on Memorial Drive.

CM:    Not those trees, it was before you got to the bayou.  Was it sycamore trees?

DM:   Yeah.  A lot of sycamore trees.  In front of my house was sycamore trees.

But they’ve cut them down.

LS:              The persimmon tree was out here on this street?

DM:   Huh?

LS:              Where was the persimmon tree?

DM:   The persimmon tree was in the middle of the park.  That was kind of as far as I could go.

LS:              John White Valentine and there’s where the Bolivar Commercial was over here where that building where John White’s office is.  The little gray building?

EW:    Um hmm.

LS:              The Bolivar Commercial – the Glassco’s had it.

DM:   Kimball.

LS:              That’s where their business was.

EW:    I’ve enjoyed it ladies.

DM:   It’s been fun. I hope we’ve helped y’all helped us.

CM:    Oh I think so.

EW:    Absolutely.  Laying it out like that.

LS:              We couldn’t remember some names.

Tape cuts off.