Interview with Rep. Charlie Capps, Jr.     July 10, 2007     OH# 371

Interviewed by Emily Weaver and Dr. Cameron McMillen

Transcribed by W. Ray


EW:                 This is Emily Weaver and I am with Dr. Cameron McMillen and we are interviewing Charlie Capps on the 10th of July 2007 in the Capps Archives and Museum for the Historic Neighborhood Oral History Project.

EW:                 Mr. Capps, do you willingly participate in this oral history project?

CC:                  Yes.

EW:                 Okay, thank you.  Alright well we will start with some pretty simple questions.  Can you give me your full name?

CC:                  Charles Wilson Capps Jr.

EW:                 Alright, and what is your current occupation?

CC:                  Retired.

EW:                 Alright and what are you retired from?

CC:                  Well, I had an insurance agency, I farmed, and I was in the legislature many years – 33 years.

EW:                 Okay, okay.  And what is your current residence?

CC:                  1012 Farmer Street here in Cleveland.  1012.

EW:                 Okay, alright, let’s begin with the first question.  How long have you lived in Cleveland?

CC:                  Well, my family moved to Cleveland from Merigold when I was five.  So I have lived here since 1930.

EW:                 Alright, since moving when you were five, have you always lived in Cleveland?

CC:                  Yes.

EW:                 Alright, where did y’all move to here in town?

CC:                  We lived – my granddaddy had died and he had one of those big old frame houses on Bolivar Street with a porch around it.  So we moved there on North Bolivar.

EW:                 North Bolivar.  What is the address now?

CC:                  I don’t remember.

EW:                 Oh okay.  It’s just on North Bolivar.

CM:                 Do you know who lives there now?

CC:                  No, the house has been demolished a good many years ago.  Ed Coleman used to live there.  He built another house on the site.  I’m not sure who lives there.

EW:                 Okay.  So there is a house on the site now?

CC:                  Yes.

EW:                 Alright, when you moved to North Bolivar, your grandfather’s home, after that where have you lived around Cleveland?

CC:                  Well I lived there and then my mother and daddy built – they owned a lot in back of that house, so they built a house about 1937 or 38 on Leflore Street.  And I lived there growing up.

EW:                 What was the address there, do you happen to remember?

CC:                  I’m guessing 212 or something like that.

CM:                 Is that house still standing?

CC:                  Yes, June Tatum lives there.

EW:                 Okay, alright.  They built the house, do you mean they designed it or did your parents actually get out there and build it?

CC:                  Oh no, no, no.  My mother and daddy designed it and somebody built it.

EW:                 A local contractor probably?

CC:                  Yeah, I’m sure.

EW:                 Okay, can you describe growing up in that house?  Kind of what the house was like, the rooms?

CC:                  Well let’s see, there was a formal living room and formal dining room and two bedrooms and a bath downstairs and a kitchen.  A screened porch on the back.  And sometime during the process a third bedroom was added upstairs and a pool table.

EW:                 Ohhh, I’ll bet that kept you busy.

CC:                  Yes, I enjoyed that, I sure did.

EW:                 Okay, the formal living and dining room.  I’m interested, were you allowed in there in those places?

CC:                  Well, my mother was always training a cook to serve properly.  And we would have formal dinners and we just ate in there when we had company. We had a breakfast room where we ate our regular.

EW:                 Okay, so were there many other houses around you at that time?

CC:                  Oh yeah.  Yes, there were houses on both sides, all around us.

EW:                 Okay, who were some of your neighbors?

CC:                  Well, Dr. Louis Butler, the dentist, and he had a son my age.

EW:                 Okay.

CC:                  We were great friends.

EW:                 Did you play a lot together?

CC:                  Yes.  But back on Bolivar Street we – the Williford boys lived right across the street from us, and the Nunnery boys lived right next door to us, and the William’s girl lived two or three houses back down, and one or two other boys lived around there and we just had a good time.

EW:                 Oh yeah.  What would be some of the things that ya’ll would do?

CC:                  Well we played football and played Andy Over.

EW:                 Played what?

CC:                  You threw  a ball over a house or a building some kind of way and we played that and we’d be out after dark.

EW:                 Yeah, yeah.  Okay, were there any annual neighborhood activities or parades or anything?

CC:                  Yeah, I don’t remember any neighborhood activities.  Of course there wasn’t any air conditioning and I played an instrument, a clarinet.  My mother required that I play a clarinet.  I wasn’t talented at all.  And Louis Butler, my next door neighbor, practiced all the time.  He was really talented.  And Clarence Lawler right across the street – Bennie Beach right across the street, he was really talented and he played all the time.  And that drove my mother crazy that I wasn’t practicing.

EW:                 What were you doing instead of practicing?

CC:                  I was just fooling around.

EW:                 Fooling around.

CC:                  Well, I played football in high school and tennis, track.  A lot of times I was busy doing those things.

EW:                 Oh absolutely, being much more active.  Any other specific things you can remember about growing up in that house on Leflore?  Were there special occasions in the home?

CC:                  Oh, we had parties all the time.  My mother was a very dominant person, she would have parties for me.  We would have other children around town over to the parties.

EW:                 Oh okay.  Special occasions?

CC:                  (inaudible).  We had a nice backyard and in the summertime we had a party back there.  I don’t remember any neighborhood parties though.

CM:                 Did you have brothers or sisters?

CC:                  Did I have – no, I was an only child.

EW:                 You had complete dominion of the house?

CC:                  Well I didn’t call it that.  I didn’t call it that.

EW:                 You mentioned the pool table.  When did the pool table get there in the house?

CC:                  A couple of years after the house was built.  And I don’t know how in the world my daddy got it upstairs, but obviously he did.  We had a lot of boys to come over and play pool after school and on weekends.  We played a lot of pool up there.

EW:                 Was that your dad wanting that so he and his friends could play or was that to keep you at home and under supervision?

CC:                  My dad was a good pool player but I don’t remember he and his friends playing.

EW:                 Okay, so that was a big thing for ya’ll?

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 So are you any good at pool now?

CC:                  I haven’t been in a pool room lately.

EW:                 Yeah.  They have some good pool tables up there at the Shanty – Grapeland Store.

CC:                  Do they?

EW:                 Oh yeah.  Definitely.

CC:                  In our Pool Room in Cleveland we had a bookie joint and a restaurant and everything like that.

EW:                 You think that pool table is still there or did it leave after ya’ll left?

CC:                  It ended up – I actually built a room on my house to put the pool table in.  And we had it when my children were growing up.

EW:                 Was that the home on Farmer?

CC:                  Yeah – not the one I live in, but about a block down – 1200 Farmer.

EW:                 Well, let me follow that up then.  After Leflore Street where you grew up, what was your next address?

CC:                  The next address was Third Street.  Was a house on Third Street that my wife and I lived in after we got married.

EW:                 Okay, and when did you get married?

CC:                  1949.  May 1949.

EW:                 Alright.  Did ya’ll build that house or move into that house?

CC:                  We moved into that house.  The bigger house on Farmer Street we built.

EW:                 Okay, on 1200?

CC:                  Yeah.  It was a big house where we raised our children that had five bedrooms and five bathrooms and all sorts of stuff, and a pool room, and a swimming pool.

EW:                 Oh my goodness, you had it set up for them.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 That’s great.  Especially growing up you had one bathroom in your house growing up?

CC:                  No, there were two.  One downstairs and one upstairs.

EW:                 Okay.  And then you moved into your current 1012 Farmer residence?

CC:                  Actually I don’t live at 1012.  I do live in 1012 Farmer now, but when our children left, we sold the big house and built the 1012 Farmer house.

EW:                 And when was that?

CC:                  About thirteen years ago.

EW:                Okay, let’s see.  When you were younger, let’s go back to your younger days.  What were some of the other things that you would do for fun?

CC:                  We rode bicycles and we didn’t have any games or anything like that but seems to me like we always played marbles a lot.  And I had a horse, sometimes I would go out and ride the horse.

CM:                 Where did you keep the horse?

CC:                  Have you ever heard that terrific murder that was up the bayou?  These two – a white man and his wife were murdered and it was a big event.  He had little pasture there and that’s where I kept the horse.  And they arrested this black and had to call out the National Guard to protect the black from being lynched.  That was about ‘39 or ’40.

EW:                 1939.

CM:                 Do you know the names of the people that were murdered?

CC:                  I used to know but I really can’t remember their names.

EW:                 I didn’t know about that.

CC:                  Huh?

EW:                 I had no clue about that.

CC:                  That’s where I kept the horse.  I really wasn’t a big horse person.  A lot of trouble to get out there.

EW:                 How would you get out there?

CC:                  I think mama and daddy would take me.

EW:                 In the car?

CC:                  Yeah.  And then the man that was keeping the horse would go catch him.  It was a pretty big pasture.

EW:                 He wouldn’t just come to you?

CC:                  No, he wouldn’t come.  I assume you have all of that.

EW:                 Yeah, yeah.  So how old were you think?

CC:                  Oh, must have been early teens.

EW:                 Yeah, it would be.  You said riding bikes.  Were there limits to how far you could ride your bikes with your friends?  Like can’t go past this street?

CC:                  I don’t remember there being any limits.  There were time limits.  We sat down to supper at certain times at night and of course we had to sit down to lunch, but I don’t remember any limits, or don’t go here or there.  I don’t remember that.

EW:                 Tried to stay out of trouble though.

CC:                  Yeah, that’s right.

EW:                 In high school, what were the extra-curricular activities that you did?  You talked about track and…

CC:                  Well I was in the band.  Played football several years really.  And I really didn’t do anything in track but pole vault.

EW:                 That’s a lot.

CC:                  Yeah, I won the delta championship doing that.

EW:                 Oh good!   Congratulations.  That’s a big deal.

CC:                  I wasn’t a good athlete particularly.

EW:                 You seemed to do alright.  What about getting your drivers’ license.  Do you remember?

CC:                  Now that’s really something interesting.  I was 18 years old and in the Army down at Fort Hood, Texas and I had a fender bender.  And they asked me for my drivers’ license.  I told him that Mississippi didn’t have any drivers’ licenses.  At that time when I had left and joined the Army there wasn’t any drivers’ license.  But sometimes shortly thereafter the legislature must have passed a law where you had to have a drivers’ license.  So I called my daddy and he went up to the Sheriff’s Office and got me a license and sent it to me.

EW:                 So you never had to take a driving test or anything?

CC:                  Nothing like that.

EW:                 Oh my goodness!  And definitely no insurance cards.

CC:                  No insurance that’s right.

EW:                 Not like we need them now. Well when you came back to town after the service, what would be some of the things you would do with your friends?

CC:                  After I came back to town – what?

EW:                 After being at Fort Hood, did you come back to Cleveland?

CC:                  I was in the Army nearly four years in World War II and as soon as I got back to town – I was overseas for about  a year.  And when I got back in Cleveland in late August 1946 and I had about two weeks and then I enrolled at Ole Miss and graduated there a couple of years later.

EW:                 Okay, what were some of the places that you would go to hang out with your friends through your high school years?

CC:                  I don’t remember hanging out a lot.  I reckon we did, but I don’t remember like I see all these cars with children up at the school house just sitting there?  I don’t’ ever remember doing anything like that.

EW:                 Yeah.

CC:                  During that period that I would have been hanging out I was in the Army.  So we didn’t hang out much.

EW:                 You didn’t have much of a chance to.

CC:                  No, I…

CM:                 Did you go into the Army right from high school?

CC:                  As soon as I was 18.  I was in college for a short period of time up at Davidson up in North Carolina.  And as soon as I turned 18 I quit and joined the Army.  Of course everybody did.  There wasn’t any people around. The colleges were closed and ….

EW:                 Did you feel a sense of duty to do that?  Were you compelled to do that?

CC:                  It’s something I wanted to do.  I would have been drafted of course in a (inaudible) period of time.

EW:                 You voluntarily went?

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 I understand.  What were holidays like around the house when you were growing up?

CC:                  I don’t remember being particularly big.  Christmas was big.  I do remember that.  We had great big Christmas trees and lots and lots of presents.  Birthdays were not particularly big in my family because both of our birthdays were around Christmas or holidays, so we just…

EW:                 Joined them in.

CC:                  I got married on May 28 and my wife’s birthday was on June 17 and I didn’t pay any attention to it.  Didn’t even know it was to tell you the truth.

EW:                 Uh oh.

CC:                  I didn’t do that but once.

EW:                 Good show.

CC:                  Yeah, never forgot it again.

EW:                 There you go, still have it.

CC:                  Now what was the question.

EW:                 Big holidays – what were holidays like around the house?  Decorations, or…

CC:                  Yeah, there were decorations.

EW:                 What about the Christmas tree, would it have been a real tree?

CC:                  Oh yeah.  Real tree.

EW:                 Did you go out and cut it yourself or was it…?

CC:                  No, no.

EW:                 Would there have been a tree farm?

CC:                  My mother bought it somewhere, I don’t know.

EW:                 Oh yeah, you weren’t concerned ….except with the presents underneath.

CC:                  Yeah, that’s correct.

CM:                 Was there a big Christmas parade?

CC:                  Christmas…

CM:                 Parade.

CC:                  I don’t remember. I don’t remember as a boy any parade.  It may have passed some but I don’t remember.  They started having parades after World War II.  We didn’t have a Chamber of Commerce or anything to promote.

CM:                 Where were the edges of Cleveland when you were growing up?

CC:                  Where was what?

CM:                 The edges of Cleveland, how far?

CC:                  Cleveland houses along Bolivar and Pearman and Leflore and maybe Victoria, they were all built along that ridge there.  And the college was on this ridge, there were houses on this ridge.  But there was nothing between the lowland between the college and about Victoria.

EW:                 Do you remember any of the houses being built?

CC:                  There weren’t many houses.  Cleveland wasn’t a big town and I remember that house that mother and daddy built, but I don’t remember other houses.  People didn’t start growing until after World War II.

EW:                 Yeah, and then it just kind of boomed.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 It sounds like your house might have been the house to have everybody over.  Everybody wanted to be at your house.  What made it special to be over there at your house, I mean besides the pool table?

CC:                  Well another thing we did, I was active in going to youth things at the church.

EW:                 Okay, uh hmm.

CM:                 What church was that?

CC:                  Methodist.

CM:                 First Methodist?

CC:                  First Methodist.  Yeah.  And there were several boys my age that were just crazy about my mother and they’d be dropping in and out all the time.  Of course no women worked in those days and as far as just a place to meet, we more than likely went over to girl’s houses.

EW:                 Inside or outside?

CC:                  Well I think outside. It might have been inside.

CM:                 Was there a swimming pool downtown there when you were growing up?

CC:                  The only swimming pool was at Denton’s.  And they had a…well, that’s where we went swimming.  And they had a men’s restroom and a women’s restroom and all the children swam there.  At the entrance they cooked sandwiches and popcorn and stuff like that.  And I remember the ladies of the town every morning would go down and get a coca-cola about 10:00.  And they had young boys to serve them.

CM:                 Where was that?

CC:                  Denton’s.  Drugstore did the same thing.  They had servers – young boys would come out and serve from the street.

EW:                 Was there one house that everybody kind of avoided?

CC:                  I don’t recall any.  We played up and down the streets really, particularly on Bolivar.  I had a dog that was really a wonderful dog.  He killed every cat in the alley if it was this era you’d be reading about him up in the paper.

EW:                 What kind of dog was he?

CC:                  Some kind of a pit bull.  I expect it was a pit bull.

EW:                 Oh wow.

CC:                  My neighbors next door had moved to Jackson and left the dog so…

EW:                 You adopted him.

CC:                  He and I became good friends.

EW:                 Do you remember his name?

CC:                  Nick.

EW:                 Did most boys, or most children have pets, dogs, that they ran around with?

CC:                  I really don’t recall having pets like we do now. I reckon we did but…

EW:                 But Nick would go with you?

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Did he sleep in the house or was he an outside dog?

CC:                  Always outside.  Mother wouldn’t think about having him in the house.

EW:                 What would your mother have done if that dog came outside?

CC:                  She wouldn’t even consider that.

EW:                 Nor I guess would you.

CC:                  Really from my mother and daddy’s level the dog was a big problem because the dog really killed a lot of cats.  Of course the neighbors would be mad.  I don’t know how they handled it but…

EW:                 With diplomacy.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Were there many fences between houses?

CC:                  What – I don’t remember any fences.

EW:                 So it was pretty much open range.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Ya’ll could run from yard to yard.

CC:                  In fact I don’t remember any fences on Bolivar – none.  And none on Leflore.  Fences became popular later, in ’56 in that era.

EW:                 Do you think that was to keep people out of the yards or…?

CC:                  I don’t know what it was.  Just built a fence on your property line.

EW:                 Yeah.  To declare your space.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 What were your thoughts about growing up in Cleveland – while you were growing up in Cleveland – was it really a homey feeling, secure?

CC:                  Growing up in Cleveland was fine and I never thought about any other place.  Ever.  I developed a good friendship with John Pearson over in Rosedale.  And I’d go over there and spend the night with him sometimes and that’s the first time that I ventured out of Cleveland.  I went to camp but I was a little boy and got to know about a lot of different folks there.

EW:                 What camp was that?

CC:                  Well, that’s KYWY – over at – YMCA camp over in Greenville, really, but the camp was over in Hot Springs.  A lot of delta boys went there.  But outside of that – meeting those folks, I didn’t know anybody except folks from Cleveland, and that was fine.

CM:                 How did you get to be friends with John Pearson?

CC:                  At camp, we went to camp together and we – most of my friends are dead but John is not and we are still close friends.

EW:                 Did you like visiting over there in Rosedale?

CC:                  Oh yeah.  Yeah, John…

EW:                 Was Rosedale about the same size as Cleveland is or was it still small?

CC:                  Probably was yeah, had newspapers and…

EW:                 Okay.  When you went off to Ole Miss did you have intentions of coming back and making Cleveland your home?

CC:                  Always. I never thought about coming any other place.  My father was a successful cotton buyer and I always was going to come back and go into business with him.  Which I did and we went broke in about 1951 or 2, something like that.

EW:                 But you never thought about leaving?  This was going to be home.

CC:                  No, this was my home and I never even thought about living anyplace else.

CM:                 What did you do after that in ’51?

CC:                  I started farming.  I farmed for about twenty years.  Then I opened up an insurance agency and it was successful.  And I did that until lately.

EW:                 It just occurred to me, when you drive down maybe Bolivar and Leflore and Pearman and Victoria, are there memories that are stirred when you pass certain houses or has this project made you think of what it was like growing up and made you think favorably back on those thoughts?

CC:                  Well, I don’t have particular memories.  The Methodist preacher lived there on Pearman Avenue and I had a few dates with his daughter when I was a teenager.  And American Legion Hut was right there – we used to have dances there.

EW:                 Where was it?

CC:                  I believe the Welfare Department is in there now.  Right next to Denton’s.

EW:                 Alright.  I know where you are talking about.  On North Pearman.  Isn’t that North Pearman?  So all those spaces down there that we think of now as offices were residences?

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Is it slightly odd to you to see law offices in places where people once lived?

CC:                  Now say that again?

EW:                 Does it feel different to know that people are running businesses in the same places where your friends and you saw people growing up?

CC:                  I don’t ever think about that.

CM:                 Somebody mentioned the A.B. Turner tragedy, do you know what that was?

CC:                  Yeah, that was Mr. (inaudible) Turner up there at the bayou.  That’s what I was talking about earlier.  Yeah, they were a white couple there.

EW:                 Is that what James Albert Wiggins was talking about?

CM:                 I don’t remember in his stuff.

EW:                 Okay.  Yeah, Nancy Seawright has pulled together some information on houses in the streets that we are talking about, and she has mentioned historic facts about people who lived here and what was going on there at this time, and I believe ….

CM:                 Edward Green.  Edward H. Green lived in Cleveland in 1920 from Boyle.  He graduated from Millsaps and joined the firm of John T. Smith and he was the County Attorney for the A.B. Turner tragedy.

CC:                  I didn’t know that.

CM:                 Well did they find out who killed them?  Did they find the murderer?

CC:                  Oh yeah.  They had him in the jail for a good while before he was tried.  And that’s the one that I told you they had to call out the National Guard.  They had machine guns on the second floor and they were looking for a lynching.  But never took place.  He was, I think in those days, he was executed there in the jail.  The crime was done in the same county and the punishment was done in the same county it was committed.

CM:                 Is that the jail that is connected to the courthouse now and not used now?

CC:                  No, there was a jail right there on the courthouse grounds, but it was old and finally it was torn down and that jail that is connected to the courthouse was, I don’t remember when it was built, but I was Sheriff four years and there is a hangman’s noose now, in operation and everything.  But at that time I believe they moved all the executions to Parchman.

CM:                 Do you remember when the courthouse was built?

CC:                  No, I can’t remember, it was always there as far as I can remember.  Now that addition, I can remember when that was built, the jail, and all that.

EW:                 So you saw Cleveland grow?

CC:                  Yeah, I have seen it grow.

CM:                 Was that Methodist – the church that is there now, was that the church you went to when you were growing up?

CC:                  Yeah. First Methodist Church.

CM:                 Was it the same building?

CC:                  Yes.

EW:                 Always been there.

CC:                  There was the – there are some additions to it now.

CM:                 Was First Baptist always there beside it?

CC:                  Always been beside it.  Always has been dominating.

EW:                 A little healthy competition between the Methodists and the Baptists?

CC:                  Yeah, but we get along with them fine.  We have parking lots adjoined and the churches are adjoined.

EW:                 Oh yeah.  Do you like how Cleveland has grown?  Are you proud?

CC:                  Yes.  I am proud of it.  Cleveland is really recognized all over the state as a jewel in the delta.

EW:                 Our people definitely.

CC:                  Yeah, and I certainly am proud of that.

EW:                 Delta State has helped that.

CC:                  Delta State has been a predominant reason why success is.

EW:                 I believe they have worked well together.

CC:                  Um hmm.  Right.

EW:                 Let’s see, Cam, you have anything else come to mind?

CM:                 Who was A.B. Turner?

CC:                  He was a – not a sharecropper farmer but I can remember the house.  He lived in a shotgun house up there by, a little north of where the cemetery is now.  He had a pasture in back of his house.  But I wouldn’t call him a prominent person.  And I can’t remember why the black killed them.

EW:                 Sometimes you just don’t know why people do what they do.  Oh, I have a question about screened porches. Did many of the houses while you were growing up have screened porches?  Everybody have a screened porch?

CC:                  Yes, a lot of them did.

EW:                 People congregate there?  Mama’s…?

CC:                  Well, we had a lot of mosquitoes then and there was no air conditioning anywhere and screen porches were used.

EW:                 Did you sleep out there?  I’ve heard of sleeping porches.

CC:                  I doubt I slept on porches but I don’t remember.  But the houses – the rooms were a lot taller, ceilings.  And you did most anything to keep cool.  But everybody was doing the same thing and I don’t remember anybody complaining a lot about it.

EW:                 Do you think we could go back and handle no air conditioning now?

CC:                  I think it would be hard to do.  But back when we didn’t’ have air conditioning – it wasn’t a lot of complaining about it.

EW:                 Would there have been screens on the windows then?

CC:                  Some people did, some people didn’t’.

EW:                 If not the mosquitoes would come in to your house?

CC:                  Oh yeah, we’ve always had mosquitoes.

EW:                 Yeah.  Do you remember getting air conditioning for the first time in your home?

CC:                  Well, I remember when we had window units in the Third Avenue house, so that would have been the ‘50’s I reckon.

EW:                 o never while you were growing up?

CC:                  No never.

EW:                 And I understand that Delta States dorms were the first dorms in the state to get air conditioning.

CC:                  I didn’t know about that.

EW:                 I happened across that accidentally.  Do you remember the ice house?

CC:                  Oh yes, I remember Mr. McCaleb well.  Yeah, I knew Mr. McCaleb and we – he would deliver a chunk of ice.  We had a ice box at the house.  He would deliver every day I reckon.  And then we had Mr. Boschert delivered milk every day.

EW:                 Mr. Boschert?

CC:                  Um hmm.

EW:                 The Boschert’s from Duncan?

CC:                  Well I’m sure they were kin, they were all German’s.  Mr. Boschert had a dairy farm out east of town.

EW:                 Okay.  Alright.  And delivering the ice to the ice box, would he have just come in there and put it in there or left or…?

CC:                  I believe he did.  I don’t ever remember fooling with it.  I think he put it in.

EW:                 So, didn’t lock doors?

CC:                  No, no locked doors at all.

CM:                 They used to put a sign in the window when you wanted ice, so the ice man would go ahead and bring the ice in.

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Do you remember that?

CC:                  I don’t remember a sign.  But probably did.

CM:                 There were some people down the street from me that still had ice boxes when I was little.  I thought that was strange.  They put the sign in the window they days they wanted it.

EW:                 Oh wow.  It’s beyond me to think of that you know.

CC:                  Mr. McCaleb was a little bitty man.  He handled that ice.

EW:                 He could handle the ice huh.  In a truck?  He would deliver it in a truck?

CC:                  Yeah, he would park on the street and bring it into the house.

CM:                 Where did you go to school?  Cleveland High was where it is now, but where did you go to elementary?

CC:                  Where did I go where?

CM:                 To elementary school.

CC:                  I came out here first to the little school out here at Delta State.

EW:                 Hill Demonstration.

CC:                  Huh?

EW:                 Would it have been Hill Demonstration School?

CC:                  Yeah, that’s where it was. I went to school out here until the seventh grade and then to the public school.

CM:                 Was that Pearman?

CC:                  I don’t think Pearman was there, I think all the schools – let’s see…

CM:                 Where the high school and junior high are now?

CC:                  I think so.  Yes, I did go to Pearman. I forgot about that.  I did go there.

EW:                 Okay, what about the streets?  What were the conditions of the streets, were they paved?

CC:                  Well, mostly graveled but there were street…well I remember when the first concrete street was made.  It came downtown.  It was a big celebration for that.  But the streets were pretty well all gravel.  And then they asphalted them all later.

EW:                 When was the concrete street laid?  (inaudible) concrete?

CC:                  Yeah.

EW:                 Okay.  Which street was it? Would it have been…?

CC:                  Main Street – Sharpe Avenue.

EW:                 Would that have been maybe the main road between Cleveland and…

CC:                  61.

EW:                 It would have been 61?

CC:                  No, it wasn’t 61 it was ….

CM:                 Leflore was 61.

CC:                  Yeah, and on down through Memorial Drive..

EW:                 To Boyle.

CC:                  To Boyle.  Cleveland had a baseball team.  A professional baseball team.  And they played the games down in the ball park in Boyle.

EW:                 Oh, what was the team, what was it called?

CC:                  They were called…I can’t really remember, it was a class D league.

EW:                 Huh!  I might have to ask Coach Ferriss.  He may know something.

CC:                  He probably does.  But Greenville and Greenwood and Clarksdale and Pine Bluff, El Dorado – they were all in the same league.

EW:                 Okay.

CM:                 Did ya’ll go to most of the games?

CC:                  I was the bat boy down here when they played at home so I was.

EW:                 Oh wow.

CC:                  But they had an old bus that they would drive to the next place.  It stayed broken down all the time.

EW:                 Oh me.  Cam do you have anything else?  Any more questions?

CM:                 I don’t think so.

EW:                 I think we’ve asked all the questions that are on our list.  Have we asked everything that you would like to share?  Or there other memories?

CC:                  I’ve told you about all that I remember.

EW:                 And we appreciate it.  Thank you very much.

CC:                  I’m sorry I was late.

EW:                 You’re fine.

CM:                 Not a problem.

CC:                  I’ve enjoyed visiting with ya’ll.

EW:                 Well thank you very much.

Tape Ends