{"id":9559,"date":"2023-04-27T22:30:23","date_gmt":"2023-04-27T22:30:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/?page_id=9559"},"modified":"2023-04-27T22:30:23","modified_gmt":"2023-04-27T22:30:23","slug":"donna-mccaleb-oral-history","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/donna-mccaleb-oral-history\/","title":{"rendered":"Donna McCaleb Oral History"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][divider line_type=”No Line”][vc_column_text]\n

Donna McCaleb Oral History<\/span><\/h1>\n[\/vc_column_text][divider line_type=”No Line”][page_submenu alignment=”center” sticky=”true” bg_color=”#008542″ link_color=”#ffffff”][page_link link_url=” https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/manuscripts-and-guides\/” title=”Manuscripts & Subject Guides<\/strong>” id=”1682634200094-0″ tab_id=”1682634200095-2″] [\/page_link][page_link link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/guides-to-the-collection-page\/” title=”Collections Portal<\/strong>” id=”1682634200105-5″ tab_id=”1682634200105-8″] [\/page_link][page_link title=”Visit<\/strong>” id=”1682634208468-0″ tab_id=”1682634208469-6″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/visit\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Make a Request<\/strong>” id=”1682634209617-8″ tab_id=”1682634209618-9″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/requests\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”About Us<\/strong>” id=”1682634210319-0″ tab_id=”1682634210320-6″ link_url=” https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments-archives-museum-about-us\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Yearbooks Online<\/strong>” id=”1682634211100-8″ tab_id=”1682634211101-5″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/yearbooks-alumni-magazines-delta-state-histories\/”][\/page_link][\/page_submenu][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_column_text]Interviewee:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 McCaleb, Donna OH# 381<\/strong><\/p>\n

Interviewer:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Emily Weaver and Dr. Cameron McMillan<\/strong><\/p>\n

Date:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 August 14, 2007<\/strong><\/p>\n

Transcribed by:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 K. Clemons<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 This is Emily Weaver and I\u2019m with Dr. McMillan and Mrs. Donna McCaleb on the 14 of August 2007 in the Capps Archive Museum Building, and we are talking about the Historic Neighborhood Project.\u00a0 Mrs. McCaleb, do you willingly participate in this oral history project?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Have you always lived in Cleveland?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 All except the first two months of my life.\u00a0 I was born in Rosedale, October, 1925\u2026 went to Cleveland, December, 1925.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What are some of the addresses you lived at in Cleveland?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 306 S. Leflore is the only address.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 You lived there all your life?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, my husband had a job at Gunnison, and I moved over there.\u00a0 Then we moved back to Cleveland.\u00a0 So I had other addresses later on like Villa apartments, but always in Cleveland.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 So you started out in a historic neighborhood.\u00a0 Tell us a little bit about that house.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 It was a fairly large house.\u00a0 It was built by a contractor named Boseman, and we moved in there in \u201925.\u00a0 It was relatively a new house.\u00a0 I think only two or three years old at the time.\u00a0 It was in, what I think is one of the older neighborhoods of Cleveland.\u00a0 I knew all the people next door, down the street, all around.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Who were some of them?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, next door to me was the Bishop family.\u00a0 And Mr. Wattie Bishop was the mayor.\u00a0 It was his family that lived there.\u00a0 Then next to him was Mr. Bryant who was a policeman.\u00a0 And next to him was the Clark family.\u00a0 And next to him was the Fletcher\u2019s, I believe it was.\u00a0 And the house at the end of Leflore St., north of where I lived, was a hospital at one time.\u00a0 In fact, I had my tonsils out there.\u00a0 It\u2019s the one you probably know as James Albert Williams.\u00a0 That was, not the first hospital, but it was a hospital.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you know where the first hospital was?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 The first hospital was over on, where international harvest\u2026 Well, you don\u2019t remember that, probably; but kind of along where the Fred\u2019s Dollar store, over in there.\u00a0 It was a house; and that was the first hospital.\u00a0 Then the second hospital was a two-story house on Leflore, and then later on they built the hospital that is the nursing part of Delta State.\u00a0 The general house, the construction of the house?\u00a0 It was well built.\u00a0 It only had one bathroom, but it was at the end of the hall that went all the way through the house.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t air conditioned.\u00a0 I remember going around at night trying to find a cool place.\u00a0 That part of town never had any problems with water.\u00a0 At one time, it was a main highway.\u00a0 Cotton trailers came along going to the gin.\u00a0 It was a heavily trafficked road.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 This is a little off subject, but do you remember the baseball team that was at Boyle?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yeah..<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What was the name\u2026 Do you know who\u2026 They were a (word?) team for somebody.\u00a0 Do you know who?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No, I remember the Cotton States was a league probably before that now.\u00a0 Because that\u2019s why my dad came to Cleveland, playing with the Cotton State League.\u00a0 And Mr. Echols, who was the Chancery Clerk, had a rental house; and my dad stayed there.\u00a0 And he liked my dad so much that when he finished State, he offered him a job and he came to Cleveland or Rosedale, and worked for him.\u00a0\u00a0 But I remember going to ballgames and where the stadium was.\u00a0 I guess you\u2019d call it a stadium.\u00a0 I remember that, but I don\u2019t remember the name of the team.<\/p>\n

EW: \u00a0Where would the games have been?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Where the needle factory now is in Boyle.\u00a0 That was where games were played.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 We heard about that team that Kent Wyatt founded.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 A hint might be Roy Jacks might know because his brother played on it.\u00a0 He might know of it.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Were there any neighborhood activities that you remember doing?\u00a0 Neighborhood traditions, holidays?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I know that Cleveland did decorate for Christmas\u2026 on a lot of outside trees, especially trees that were suitable.\u00a0 It was a big thing to decorate.\u00a0 I remember the parades.\u00a0 Dr.\u00a0 Walt\u2019s grandfather was always Santa Claus.\u00a0 I remember a celebration we had, the hundredth year Cleveland had a celebration.\u00a0 They had\u2026 I know that I participated in a swimming contest that they had.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t know much else about what\u2026 And I don\u2019t know what year that was.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where did you swim?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Denton\u2019s.\u00a0 Everybody swam at Denton\u2019s.\u00a0 Denton\u2019s was an ice cream place\u2026 where it is now.\u00a0 But behind there was a swimming pool.\u00a0 And I guess that\u2019s where everybody\u2026 I learned to swim\u2026 I had a maid that would take me to the pool, and then I have a brother who\u2019s ten years older than I am.\u00a0 So he was always there swimming, and he would take me out.\u00a0 And I guess he taught me how to swim.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What was the atmosphere growing up in Cleveland?\u00a0 Were there places that you weren\u2019t supposed to go?\u00a0 Did you have boundaries?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I had boundaries, but I was such a free spirit.\u00a0 I could go as far as I could hear my mother\u2019s call. \u00a0That was a signal for me to come home.\u00a0 So I couldn\u2019t be out of that distance, but mainly it was the block there on Leflore where I lived.\u00a0 I could go down to the end of the block where James Albert lived.\u00a0 And then, mostly, I could go up two blocks north up to where the Varner\u2019s live now.\u00a0 But that was about the extent of my distance.\u00a0 And then behind me were a few houses, and I could go back on Victoria.\u00a0 There was a nice (word?) that ran back of my house.\u00a0 And we played on that and caught turtles, and dug caves and made rafts and had a wonderful time.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Who did you play with?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I had two friends\u2014the Clark\u2019s that lived in the white two-story house, Charles was one of them.\u00a0 And then directly behind me was a family named Janoush, and Frank was our age.\u00a0 So I had Charles and Frank, the three of us.\u00a0 And Frank had more of the farm chores to do.\u00a0 He had to stake the cow and gather the eggs and pick the butter beans.\u00a0 Charles and I had to help him so he could come out and play with us.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where would he do those farm chores?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 There at his house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did most of the people in your neighborhood have gardens?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No, not many.\u00a0 His family did.\u00a0 They had a cow.\u00a0 Always we were given instructions not to stake the cow near the bitter weeds.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Made for bad milk.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah, made for bad milk.\u00a0 He had these things to do, but Charles and I didn\u2019t.\u00a0 But he had to get his work done so he could come play with us.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where did you go to school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I finished at Cleveland High School.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And it was where it is now?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where did you go to grade school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I went to Cleveland.\u00a0 Now some went to the\u2026 Delta State had 1st through 6th grade.\u00a0 But I started at Cleveland and finished at Cleveland.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Do you have any pictures of going to school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No I don\u2019t.\u00a0 I bought one or two, but I\u2019m not sure ya\u2019ll\u2026 one of them is Mr. Malone and my father.\u00a0 He was a politician, a tax assessor for 38 years and sheriff for four.\u00a0 So my whole life was politics.\u00a0 I lived every four years, election every four years.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you have any stories about politics or when he was sheriff?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Not really.\u00a0 You know, if you\u2019re an official, every four years your job comes up, whether you have what\u2019s called a strong opponent or one that\u2019s not strong, it\u2019s still an election.\u00a0 It would cause a good bit of concern\u2026 the family would have to work at it, too.\u00a0 We were lucky, in that, my father kept his job; but it\u2019s a strain.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like you have a job and you know you\u2019re going to be there, for four years you had to show your work, you know.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you have to go out politicking with him?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I didn\u2019t until I was older.\u00a0 And then I was in a job where I was working for the welfare department, and you weren\u2019t allowed to politic.\u00a0 So I couldn\u2019t.\u00a0 And then when he became sheriff, I stopped working at the welfare office and worked for him for four years.\u00a0 I was a deputy sheriff for him.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 What would be the sort of things that you would have to do, or you and your family when he would be out\u2026?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Politicking?<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Mhmm.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Politicians in those days were required or were expected like to give gifts to all of the graduates.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t buy a new car until you had to.\u00a0 It was a good job, and he had people who ran against him every four years, so there were limitations on what a family could do back then.\u00a0 But it was a good life.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What did you do as a deputy sheriff?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Mostly inside work.\u00a0 I sold car tags.\u00a0 People had to pay their property tax at the sheriff\u2019s office.\u00a0 Those were the main things\u2014bookkeeping work.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 You never had to go arrest anyone?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No.\u00a0 I never had any of that.\u00a0 He liked his tax assessor\u2019s job, but he wasn\u2019t real crazy about being sheriff.\u00a0 There were a lot of unpleasant things that he had to do.\u00a0 He was a real mild man.\u00a0 Cleveland was a wonderful place.\u00a0 It just was so\u2026 You never locked your door.\u00a0 You knew all you neighbors.\u00a0 I knew all of their telephone numbers.\u00a0 Knew when they\u2019d be home for dinner\u2026 knew all their family.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Would you come home for lunch\u2026when you were in school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 I would come home for lunch.\u00a0 I lived there with my mother and dad until I married.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 When did you marry?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I married in \u201952, and I married a person who had lived in Cleveland all their life, so he had\u2026 His family had the ice plant.\u00a0 And he and I knew the same people.\u00a0 He had finished at Cleveland High.\u00a0 He had gone to State.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 How did ya\u2019ll meet?\u00a0 I mean, you\u2019ve known each other.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 We had known each other.\u00a0 Age difference was\u2026 You know in high school, you know just kind of the people that are your age.\u00a0 And then, you get out of high school\u2026 Like LaPoint, for instance, she and I now are real good friends, but we never were back in high school because she was five years older than I.\u00a0 And Mike was two years older so I really didn\u2019t know him until we started dating.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 How did you start dating?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 He went to State on a fraternity party, and I went over there to visit some friends, a couple that lived at State.\u00a0 And we both\u2026 I had a date that afternoon, but he couldn\u2019t\u2026 He had to study that night.\u00a0 And Mike had a date that afternoon, but she had another date that night.\u00a0 So Mike and I were thrown together at a party that was held that night.\u00a0 So that\u2019s how we met.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 So you grew up here and had to go to State?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Had to go to State to date him.\u00a0 Had my first date with him in 1948.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What were the holidays like when you were growing up?\u00a0 Were there parades?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Parades?\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 Always the Christmas parade.\u00a0 I don\u2019t remember any other big parades.\u00a0 One of the favorite things to do during Saturday night was to go uptown and park and watch the people on the street.\u00a0 People who lived in the country came to town on Saturday.\u00a0 They came to buy groceries, to buy clothes, to get haircuts, and that was one of the highlights that my mother and I did, was just go up and get a parking place and watch the people as they got their groceries and just did things.\u00a0 They also had a good hot tamale man, who sold hot tamales.\u00a0 And we\u2019d usually eat hot tamales and watch the people.\u00a0 That was a big doing in Cleveland.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Would he sell his hot tamales just out of a stand?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 He had a cart.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Oh, a cart?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 And three\u2026 Oh I can\u2019t remember the price, but he wrapped them up in newspaper, folded them up.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Would they be in the corn?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yeah.\u00a0 They were delicious.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Were they small like we know them now or\u2026?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 They were a good size.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t say big, I wouldn\u2019t say small, but they were nice size.\u00a0 His name was Charlin.\u00a0 A lot of our Chinese stores on Main St., the family lived in the back of them.\u00a0 And I would say most all of the stores that were run by Chinese, the family lived in the back of them.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was there one person\u2019s house where everybody congregated?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I thought about that and in my crowd I can\u2019t remember one.\u00a0 We had a vacant house on the corner of where I lived and we all called it the haunted house.\u00a0 But it was only on Halloween that we participated in playing any jokes around it.\u00a0 It actually belonged to a family named Riley.\u00a0 And it was there until Dr. Russell built his house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And he tore it down to build his house?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Mhmm.\u00a0 He tore it down to build his house.\u00a0 The main thing was just, I played in the neighborhood\u2014rubber gun wars, hopping cotton wagons.\u00a0 That was fun.\u00a0 The cotton wagons were drawn by mules and it was fun to get on top of them and jump up on the cotton, except I wasn\u2019t supposed to, but I did.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You and Frank and Charles?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Charles and Frank.\u00a0 Charles turned out to be the 8th Circuit Judge in New Orleans and Frank became an engineer.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was there one house where everybody was afraid, or you knew not to walk on their grass?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Not that I know of?\u00a0 We stole clothes pins.\u00a0 A rubber gun had to have clothes pins, so we were real bad about\u2026 I noticed it was something in there about fences.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have fences, but we stole the clothes pins.\u00a0 There were several who had clothes lines that we stole clothes pins from.\u00a0 And we could make good rubber guns that could shoot 4 and 5 rubber bands, and they hurt too.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 So, you\u2019d shoot them at each other?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh. Yeah, we had wars.\u00a0 We made, took a flying Jenna that took off from the top of my garage.\u00a0 We built it, and it curved around.\u00a0 And we used cardboard, and we greased it with axle grease, and then we sat on the cardboard to come down.\u00a0 And it was alright until you got to that curve and you had to put your weight on the inside of it unless you\u2019d be thrown off of it.\u00a0 But we had a lot of fun.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was that something else you were not supposed to do?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 That\u2019s something else I wasn\u2019t supposed to do.\u00a0 But I did a lot of things I wasn\u2019t supposed to do.\u00a0 But I had a wonderful time.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you think that you\u2019d always live in Cleveland?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 I\u2019m a homebody (word?).\u00a0 I like to be at home.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Were there any churches that everybody gathered at?\u00a0 Most of the churches were in that historic neighborhood.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes, and the main one that I remember\u2026 It was a Baptist church, First Baptist Church.\u00a0 Brother Everson was the preacher at the time, and his daughter was in the same class I was, and he was the one who brought a lot of the Chinese to Cleveland.\u00a0 He was in China for a while.\u00a0 And he was the one I believe helped build the Chinese school.\u00a0 But the Chinese didn\u2019t go to school with us.\u00a0 They went to their own school.\u00a0 But I do remember that\u2026 I was a Methodist, but I attended more of the Baptist services because of his daughter being in our crowd and he was a very active person.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And was the church a big part of your social life?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes, in high school.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 It happened to be Baptist.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 When did you get your drivers\u2019 license?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I got it when I was sixteen years old.\u00a0 I remember the first time I took the car out by myself.\u00a0 I drove it around one block, I was so glad to get home.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What do you think makes Cleveland such a special place to live and to raise a family?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I think the people do.\u00a0 The people I knew did.\u00a0 I was never afraid of anyone in the neighborhood or even people that weren\u2019t in my close neighborhood.\u00a0 Never afraid even as I got older and could go further out.\u00a0 If you needed help, they were always there to help you.\u00a0 As far as I remember, everybody got along well.\u00a0 I don\u2019t remember any big feuds that anybody had.\u00a0 I remember there was a census and I was trying to think how old I must have been.\u00a0 They were trying to get 5,000 people.\u00a0 So it must have been in the 30\u2019s.\u00a0 I would\u2019ve been five years old then.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did they determine if there were 5000 people living in Cleveland?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I think we made 5,000.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What do you think about the changes you\u2019ve seen in Cleveland over the years?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Been a lot of them.\u00a0 I think most of them are for good.\u00a0 I know Delta State has been an asset to Cleveland.\u00a0 And I don\u2019t think many people, until recently, have realized that.\u00a0 I finished at Delta State, but there were a lot people who sent their children to other colleges when, actually, I think Delta State was probably better off than some of the others.\u00a0 But I\u2019m sorry that our business town\u2026 stores there, they have held up real good.\u00a0 They were the main thing.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have any malls or anything at that time.\u00a0 Everything was either on Main St or Cotton Row.\u00a0 So I just thought it was a good atmosphere.\u00a0 We raised our children here, in a different part of town; but I still felt safe, secure.\u00a0 Everything was good.\u00a0 I never wanted to leave.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where did you live when you raised your children?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 On Deering.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 What was the address?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 1002 Deering.\u00a0 Mike and I married and we moved into that house.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t quite finished when we moved in.\u00a0 And we lived there until he had the job in Gunnison, and then we moved out there.\u00a0 At that time, both of our children were in college.\u00a0 I would not have liked to live in the country with children going to school in Cleveland, because I like the country.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you have any local stories about Cleveland that you heard growing up?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, you may have heard of the murder that was in Cleveland.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Tell me about the murder.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I\u2019ll tell it like I heard it.\u00a0 There was a man, a Negro man, who had moved to Cleveland that had been living in one of the northern cities, I think Cincinnati.\u00a0 And he\u2019s still got a paper from Cincinnati.\u00a0 And in the paper was a picture of a girl who was making her debut, and she got a threatening letter and they traced the postmark back to Cleveland.\u00a0 Then they checked the post office, and he was the only one that got the paper that had the girl\u2019s picture in it.\u00a0 So that\u2019s how they located him.\u00a0 And two deputy sheriffs were in the post office when he came to get the paper.\u00a0 Then when they went to his house, it\u2019s kind of gruesome.\u00a0 They found parts of bodies.\u00a0 And he had murdered a family up where the Pic-a-Bit.\u00a0 It was family there that he had gone in and killed the mother and 1 of 2 children; and they had not caught him.\u00a0 But from having been in his house in Boyle, they put the two together.\u00a0 And I can remember the\u2026 They called out the National Guards because they thought they were going to lynch him.\u00a0 And I can remember they had barbed wire around the courthouse.\u00a0 And they had the soldiers with the bayonet on the gun guarding the court house.\u00a0 They didn\u2019t lynch him.\u00a0 They did hang him.\u00a0 And the jail at that time was a separate building on this side of the courthouse.\u00a0 And it was about three stories tall, and it was a small building.\u00a0 They, of course, tore it down when they built the new jail.\u00a0 But that\u2019s where the jail was, and that\u2019s where they hung him.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 About how old were you?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I must have been six or seven.\u00a0 It was written up in all the detective magazines.\u00a0 It was just the talk of the Delta.\u00a0 Actually they had to take him away from Cleveland.\u00a0 They moved him somewhere else.\u00a0 They actually thought another man had killed them, a white man.\u00a0 You haven\u2019t heard that story from anybody else?<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Not all those details.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 That\u2019s the details I heard.\u00a0 He was a big man, like 6\u20194\u201d.\u00a0 He also had written on certain houses on Memorial Dr.\u00a0 On the outside, he had some kind of\u2026 I don\u2019t know what it said, but Dr. McCarty lived on Memorial Dr. at one time and he wrote on the side of his house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did he ever give a reason for killing them?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Not that I know of.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Do you remember what it felt like?\u00a0 The tension in the air?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yeah, very much so, especially after they caught him.\u00a0 I think it was more so then because people were so upset over it, and they didn\u2019t want him lynched.\u00a0 They didn\u2019t want anything like that to happen, and they were so afraid that he would be.\u00a0 But even though my dad wasn\u2019t sheriff at the time, he was in politics and at the courthouse and we probably knew more of it than some people in the county.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you remember the fire with the Robinson-Carpenter family?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Mhmm.\u00a0 I do.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Can you tell us about that?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 They lived in my neighborhood, but right behind where I lived.\u00a0 And they were a wonderful couple.\u00a0 All of them were–Bunny and Dot.\u00a0 And athletic, played tennis.\u00a0 They had had their house painted.\u00a0 They\u2019d had it redone and painted.\u00a0 And all the windows stuck\u2026 the paint. They didn\u2019t break them open.\u00a0 There was something that went wrong with the furnace.\u00a0 I never did know, except maybe it went out and the gas got in the house.\u00a0 And there were signs that they had tried to get out by opening the windows; but the paint had, as it often does, it makes the windows stick and they couldn\u2019t get out.\u00a0 And they all suffocated.\u00a0 It was a horrible tragedy.\u00a0 Mr. Robinson, Dot\u2019s father, was still living; and I think, Bunny, I think his mother was still living.\u00a0 His father had been a doctor, but I don\u2019t think he was living at the time.\u00a0 It was one of those horrible things.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 We noticed in the alley behind there, the house that faces, that would be Bolivar behind it, there\u2019s a brick wall, a low brick wall that\u2019s kind of in disrepair on that alley.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t look like it belonged to the house that\u2019s there.\u00a0 Do you know anything about it?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Behind the Carpenter house?<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 It\u2019s on the other side of the alley from them.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Their house faces Victoria, so this would be on the Leflore side of the alley.\u00a0 It looked like the fence might have\u2026 before the alley was run through.\u00a0 Do you remember?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I know that around the last house where Brian Varner lives now, there was a brick thing all the way around it. I don\u2019t believe it\u2018s there.\u00a0 But it was concrete, made out of concrete.\u00a0 It came up about a foot high and rounded at the top.\u00a0 And every so often, it had square\u2026 Like at the sidewalk, it would have a square pillar, and then it wouldn\u2019t (words?), and then there\u2019d be a square pillar on the other side.\u00a0 And it went all the way around that lot, but that would be too far away.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 This is at the other end of that lot.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 But it does kind of look like that, doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 It\u2019s not concrete though, it\u2019s all brick.\u00a0 But it has like a little pillar and then a low part and then a little pillar?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I sure don\u2019t know.\u00a0 But I\u2026<\/p>\n

EW: \u00a0You should stop by and see that.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I will.\u00a0 It\u2019s just one block off of where I knew everything.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Yea, every inch of space.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea, I knew from where Dr. Russell\u2019s house was.\u00a0 All that block I knew.\u00a0 I knew every bit of the gutter down there. I didn\u2019t go down that way too much.\u00a0 I had peaches in the summer and I would put them in a wagon and sell them\u2026 go up and down the street and sell them.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you grow the peaches in your yard?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 My dad had a few peach trees in the back.\u00a0 At one time, we owned the lot behind us at Ms. Pleasant\u2019s house.\u00a0 At one time, our lot went all the way through to Victoria.\u00a0 And then that\u2019s where he had the peach trees.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And you lived in a house on Leflore, too, when you married?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Got married in \u201952.\u00a0 Mhmm.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you get married in that house?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes, I got married in that house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you have pictures of that?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No, I don\u2019t.\u00a0 I sure don\u2019t.\u00a0 I have a picture of Mike and I, but I didn\u2019t have any photographer take them or anything like that.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have a picture of the house.\u00a0 I built an attic fan for my family.\u00a0 At that time, we didn\u2019t have air conditioning; and I could build it, but it was so heavy I couldn\u2019t put it in the attic, so we had to have someone to install it.\u00a0 But when Mimi Dossett bought the house, she asked me if I would like to have the fan, but I had no use for it, so it\u2019s still in the house.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 And you built it?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 I also painted my mother and dad\u2019s house one year, one summer.\u00a0 Didn\u2019t have anything else to do.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 She\u2019s also built some habitat houses.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 My goodness.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 And then, we had a double garage back behind our house and I took half of it, and make kind of a summer house.\u00a0 I had a barbecue pit and it was screened and furniture out there.\u00a0 And that\u2019s where the flying jenny had come off of.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You were very\u2026<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Who lives in the house now?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Mimi Dossett bought it, and Mary Jane\u2026 Her husband works for the oil rig, two weeks.\u00a0 I\u2019ll think of it in a minute.\u00a0 But they bought the house, and it\u2019s relatively the same.\u00a0 She\u2019s added a bedroom and a bath and laundry room, but the floors are the same, and the house had a vaulted ceiling made out of 1 X 4\u2019s\u2026 box.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t vaulted, I guess, it was scored with these boxes of things about every four feet.\u00a0 She didn\u2019t take that out.\u00a0 And the bathroom is where it was.\u00a0 But when she added this room, she added a bath onto it.\u00a0 So it\u2019s relatively the same.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 To go back to your wedding, who married you?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Brother Bolling.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And where did you have the reception?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 At my house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 In the yard or inside?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Inside.\u00a0 My mother had a real good friend who made my wedding cake.\u00a0 We just had family for the wedding, and then we had a few friends to come in for cake and punch.\u00a0 I never wanted a big wedding.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You said Mike\u2019s family owned the ice plant.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 They owned the ice plant.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Ok, did he do that?\u00a0 He still worked in the ice plant?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah, well he was working at Baxter\u2019s when we married, but his family owned the ice plant for all of his young years.\u00a0 And he delivered ice.\u00a0 And that was a big thing back then, delivering ice.\u00a0 You may not remember, but there\u2019s a card that has four sections on it.\u00a0 It has 25, 50,100, and 150.\u00a0 And you put it out to tell the ice man how much you wanted.\u00a0 If you wanted 50 lbs., you put it so the 50 showed.\u00a0 I wish I could show you.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You want to draw on it?<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Well let me show you how.\u00a0 It was a square like this.\u00a0 And then it was, like this.\u00a0 And it had 50, and then it had 100, 150, and then back here it probably had 25.\u00a0 So that if you wanted 25, you fixed the sign so that the 25 showed.\u00a0 And if you wanted a 50, you turned it so that the 50 would show.\u00a0 That told the ice man who was pulling a wagon by mules how many pounds you wanted.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what he brought in.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You put it in your window or something?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 And there was one lady here in town that had a scale on her back porch, and when you brought in 25 lbs., you weighed it on her scale first because if it wasn\u2019t 25 lbs., you went back and chipped off enough to make 25 lbs.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Had to have it just right.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 He was an ice man and he knew.\u00a0 And one lady here in town, he said every time he delivered ice to her, she didn\u2019t have on any clothes.\u00a0 And I said, \u2018Mike, she was bound to have\u2026\u2019 He said, \u201cNo, she never did have on any clothes.\u201d\u00a0 And sure enough, when she died, they found her naked in the bath tub.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 So he would just go into the house and put it in the ice box?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Uh huh.\u00a0 Yeah, he went in, usually the back porch.\u00a0 He knew where the ice box was and put it in the ice box.\u00a0\u00a0 They had to have ice.\u00a0 And another big thing the guys did, they iced down the cars, private railroad cars that would come through here.\u00a0 Mr. Mays happened to live in Cleveland and had a private car, and he would have to ice down his car for the coolness.\u00a0 They had a fan blowing over the ice to make it cool.\u00a0 So it was several hundred pounds of ice that would have to go into that.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 When did the ice house close?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I really don\u2019t know.\u00a0 Also, they cured meat in connection with the ice plant.\u00a0 I really don\u2019t know.\u00a0 Mike was not working\u2026 They did not own it when we started going together in \u201948, and they did not own it then.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t know\u2026 They had cold watermelons.\u00a0 And then they cured meat. \u00a0A farmer would bring in his meat that wanted cured and they would cure the meat.\u00a0 Boarding houses had to have ice there at a certain time.\u00a0 We had Fletcher Boarding House, it was a certain time they had to have the ice there.\u00a0 It was imperative.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was Fireman\u2019s Park there when you were growing up?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Fireman\u2019s Park.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 That was all just wooded area and had a sun tree, and that\u2019s where I hunted.\u00a0 When I hunted, I could go there.\u00a0 I could go that far.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 With a gun?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 With a gun.\u00a0 I had a 410.\u00a0 I hunted rabbits.\u00a0 And that was where I could go to hunt.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 By yourself?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Sometimes.\u00a0 But sometimes, Charles and Frank.\u00a0 But mainly I hunted by myself.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 So were you an only child?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I had a brother that was 10 years older.\u00a0 But I never\u2026 until later life, we never did really know each other.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you remember the mule races?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yes I do, sure do\u2014Rosedale, in the park.\u00a0 It was a big thing.\u00a0 The farmers would bring in their best riders and the mules and there\u2019d be a lot of betting on who could win.\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember whether it was a certain day of the month.\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember whether it was on July the 4th, or just a date picked.\u00a0 But I do remember the races.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Were there any in Cleveland?\u00a0 I know there were some mule barns.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea, we had a mule barn.\u00a0 Not that I know of.\u00a0 We had a skating rink down on Memorial Dr.\u00a0 Now I don\u2019t remember much about it, but it was kind of an army building down there.\u00a0 It hadn\u2019t been there for a long time, but there was a skating rink there at one time.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where was it on Memorial Dr.?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 It was about where Rut lives.\u00a0 If you know anything on Memorial Dr. A little closer to Cleveland than Boyle.\u00a0 But it was a big army building and they had a skating rink there.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 So it would be north of the four-way stop?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 It\u2019s a little bit south of that.\u00a0 The building\u2019s been torn down so long.\u00a0 And the mule barn was on cotton row.\u00a0 And there was this filling station called the Red Front, Mr. Berger ran.\u00a0 And Mr. Nelson had the mule barn.\u00a0 Riley\u2019s and Nelson\u2019s had the mule barn.\u00a0 And then most of those buildings, when I was growing up were cotton offices.\u00a0 There was a drug store over there at one time.\u00a0 Clarence Simmons had a drugstore over there. They had a cotton office, and that\u2019s where my dad\u2026 They played dominoes and poker.\u00a0 This is my dad and that\u2019s Mr. Malone.\u00a0 That\u2019s Rachel Malone\u2019s father-in-law.\u00a0 Do you know Rachel?<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 No.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Rachel started \u201cI Can Cope.\u201d\u00a0 She had cancer back many, many years ago.\u00a0 And this was her father-in-law.\u00a0 And the only other pictures I have I don\u2019t think you\u2019ll be interested in.\u00a0 That\u2019s my mother and grandmother, and these are\u2026 I can\u2019t say that these were taken in Cleveland or not.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you know where this one was taken?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I have an idea, but that might have been taken in Cleveland.\u00a0 This is my mother and this is my grandmother.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Is this you?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I doubt it.\u00a0 I have on a dress.\u00a0 I doubt it.\u00a0 They may not be at all interesting.\u00a0\u00a0 I don\u2019t have any others.\u00a0 I tried to find some that maybe showed buildings or something.\u00a0 When I went to the picture show on Saturday\u2019s\u2026 always a big outing.\u00a0 But I ran across a footbridge that was\u2026 I would go across to Bolivar, and then there was a rental house there\u2026(words?) apartments.\u00a0 And there was a footbridge across there and that\u2019s how I got across town to go to the picture shows.\u00a0 I always took rocks because there was bound to be a turtle to throw at.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Were most of the streets paved?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Not many. Leflore was paved, blacktopped.\u00a0 Court St. was.\u00a0 Main St. was.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 When you say Main St., do you mean Sharpe St.?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 The alley behind is named Virgin Lane.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Really?\u00a0 You mean the one that we call Kamien Lane now?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Why was it Virgin Lane?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 And we had a real interesting cafe called the Chat \u2018n Choo.\u00a0 It was across from where Dr. Russell\u2019s office used to be.\u00a0 I can remember my mother calling a grocery store that she shopped at and ordering her groceries, and in a few minutes they would be brought to her house.\u00a0 They\u2019d charge it and she\u2019d pay her ticket once a month.\u00a0 Eggs were\u2026 You went and picked up one egg and put it in sack.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t boxed over.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Where was the grocery store?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, we had the modern store was one of the big ones.\u00a0 And then Charles Feduccia had a\u2026 There were several of them along Main St.\u00a0 We had a pool hall, hotel.\u00a0 The hotel was where the person who took the pictures in Cleveland\u2014Pearson.\u00a0 That\u2019s where you went if you wanted your picture taken, you went by there.\u00a0 And I had a goat.\u00a0 So I took my goat there and had my picture made.\u00a0 I do have that picture.\u00a0 I\u2019m sitting on a bench with the goat next to me.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 We would love to see it.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Hmm?<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 We would love to see it.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Would you? Okay.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ll bring it.\u00a0 But yeah, we had a lot of drug stores.\u00a0 Like I say, one on Cotton Row one time, Clarence Simmons had it.\u00a0 I think he moved across the street on the corner.\u00a0 We had three picture shows in Cleveland at one time, but only two were really in operation any length of time\u2014Regent and Ellis.\u00a0 But at one time we had one called the West Brook.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You said that you had a maid who would take you to the pool.\u00a0 How long did you have that maid?\u00a0 Was she there all your life?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Mhmm.\u00a0 She came every morning, walked.\u00a0 She lived across town but she walked every morning.\u00a0 She was really more like my mother because she would get my breakfast and if I went out to play, I usually told her where I was going.\u00a0 And she kept my clothes, told me what to wear, and had her way up \u2018til I was in high school.\u00a0 And then she got sick and died, but she left a daughter.\u00a0 She had two daughters, but they\u2026 When we moved from Rosedale, they moved in with us.\u00a0 They were working for my mother and dad in Rosedale, and we had a servant\u2019s house behind our house and that\u2019s where she lived and raised these two girls.\u00a0 And they\u2019re older than I, but one of them is still living; and lives here in Cleveland.\u00a0 And they asked me to be one of the delegates of maybe Habitat when we went to the Ladies of Elegance.\u00a0 I asked Cleo, that was the daughter\u2019s name, to go with me that night.\u00a0 So she was along with me, because I\u2019ve kept up with her.\u00a0 Now she never worked for me.\u00a0 She worked for Ms. Cathing that lived here and Ms. Jones and other people, but I\u2019ve kept up with her.\u00a0 She still lives here, but the maid that we had, her name was Ophelia.\u00a0 But I couldn\u2019t say Ophelia, so I called her O.B.\u00a0\u00a0 And that was my nickname for her.\u00a0 And she came regardless of the weather and fixed breakfast and cleaned up, washed and ironed, and cooked lunch; and then she did not come back for supper unless we were having duck.\u00a0 My dad was a big hunter, and when we were having duck, she came back and cooked duck for us.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did she eventually move out of the servant\u2019s house?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea, she eventually moved out\u2026 Built her own house where her daughter still lives.\u00a0 And we all\u2026 She was sick for a while and we visited her.\u00a0 I think she was in Vicksburg at that time.\u00a0 And then we went to the funeral.\u00a0 She was like part of our family.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 When you went to grade school, did you go to Pearman?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was it over where Margaret Green is now?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you walk to school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I could catch a ride with Charles on his bicycle, but Frank had to ride too.\u00a0 So there were three of us on a bicycle\u2014most of the time.\u00a0 I would sit on the handle bars and Charles would ride and Frank would sit on the fender.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you and Frank not have bicycles?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have bicycles.\u00a0 Charles had a bicycle.\u00a0 And then later on, I guess we got one.\u00a0 But when it was real cold, we\u2019d ride as far as Mr. Bishop\u2019s service station, which was where The Bean Counter is on the corner.\u00a0 And then we\u2019d go in there and warm up.\u00a0 He had a stove and we\u2019d warm up.\u00a0 That was about half way to the school.\u00a0 And then we\u2019d ride on to the school.\u00a0 One day, we thought it\u2019d be so much fun to play hookey.\u00a0 That just would be great.\u00a0 So we didn\u2019t go to school.\u00a0 We stayed in a ditch all day long, and we didn\u2019t have any lunch, and we didn\u2019t get to see anybody, and we didn\u2019t get to play, so we decided hookey\u2026 We couldn\u2019t get up then and just walk out and play because we\u2019d be noticed as not being in school.\u00a0 So that wasn\u2019t so much fun.\u00a0 So we went back to school.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you ever get caught?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh no, but what now is called a helicopter, landed close to our school one day and it was at recess.\u00a0 And oh, I was wanting to see it.\u00a0 So I was in the second grade and Ms. Robb was the teacher, and after we all got in, she lined us all up against the wall and would take one at a time and whip them.\u00a0 And when you\u2019d come back in, you\u2019d be crying. \u00a0So when the one next to me came crying back and I started crying and she thought she had already whipped me.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get a whipping.\u00a0 But we were not supposed to do that because it was quite a ways from the school.\u00a0 But it was so exciting to see that plane land.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t much I didn\u2019t\u2026\u00a0 But I never thought of stealing anything.\u00a0 We stole clothes pins, I guess.\u00a0 But we never thought of any real bad things to do.\u00a0 We just had a good time.\u00a0 The neighbors all knew us; and if my mother called them, they probably could have told where we were at all times.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did Frank and Charles mother discipline you, too or tell you what to do if you were at their house?<\/p>\n

DM: \u00a0If we were and had done something, yeah they would.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 And your mother would they?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea, very much so.\u00a0 Luckily, we were all in the same class.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t think too much of the children that had gone to Delta State.\u00a0 They were kind of outcasts.\u00a0 I guess it was the\u2026 Do you know how many years they had the\u2026<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Demonstration School?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I can\u2019t believe that it was the sixth grade before they came.\u00a0 Anyway, for a while, they were not our group.\u00a0 They had been to a different school.\u00a0 But eventually, they\u2026<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you see all the houses grow up between Leflore and\u2026?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yeah.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 You saw all that clearing out?<\/p>\n

DM: \u00a0Yeah, I saw all of that.<\/p>\n

EW: \u00a0Did you ever think that houses would survive the boggy bottom?<\/p>\n

DM: \u00a0No.\u00a0 Now all of the lots across from where I lived were vacant.\u00a0 The oldest house on that street is one that at one time, was a funeral home.\u00a0 It was Fletcher\u2019s Funeral Home, and it\u2019s the house next to the Sledge\u2019s.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know who lived there.\u00a0 But that was at one time, a funeral home.\u00a0 From there on to the corner were all vacant lots\u2026 Stealing watermelons.\u00a0 There was a garden, and I got caught doing that.\u00a0 Shot at.\u00a0 I think a man just shot the gun, but I did leave my mother\u2019s good butcher knife in the field, and I got caught about that when she wondered where it was.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you offer?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I had to tell.\u00a0 I had to tell.\u00a0 I always got caught.\u00a0 My brother played the drums.\u00a0 Oh, I loved to play them.\u00a0 But he went to Texas one year.\u00a0 So I took all of his drum set out in the yard and I was having a good time, playing his drums when a girlfriend of his came by and saw me and of course she wrote him right away and I got in trouble for that.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Well, can I ask you about the Chinese school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Ok, as much as I know.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Was it already built?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Well, I think Brother Everson had a big part in building it, but it was built during my early years, because they didn\u2019t have any place to go to school.\u00a0 They just weren\u2019t allowed to go to school with us.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you mingle with them?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No.\u00a0 They just were not.\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember how he got to teach them, but they had a good school.\u00a0 And it was in operation for a long time.\u00a0 Then they finally integrated the Chinese with us.\u00a0 But he was responsible for as many Chinese coming to this part of the Delta as anyone because he was a missionary in China.<\/p>\n

EW: \u00a0And being a friend of his daughter\u2019s, I\u2019m sure you saw a lot of his\u2026<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was the synagogue real active when you were growing up?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember much about the synagogue.\u00a0 I knew where it was.\u00a0 We had a lot of good Jewish people in our area.\u00a0 I know in some parts of the country, they\u2019re not as well thought of as the ones that live here, but they all here have good reputations.\u00a0 I had a friend who told me about painting the synagogue.\u00a0 He was a carpenter, and his father told him that they hired this artist from Memphis to come paint the synagogue.\u00a0 And when he came, he had to have a scaffold to get up.\u00a0 Well, he bought the wood, but the deal was that he could bring it back.\u00a0 So he never put a nail in it.\u00a0 He would stack it so he didn\u2019t have to nail it.\u00a0 So when he got through, all of the wood was absolutely unused except\u2026 so he took it back.\u00a0 Now that\u2019s the tale I heard.\u00a0 Denton\u2019s was a big place.\u00a0 It had a swimming pool.\u00a0 It also had a lunch counter.\u00a0 It had drive-in service at one time.\u00a0 It was a big meeting place for everybody to come\u2014summer and winter.\u00a0 A big day at school was a rally day we had.\u00a0 We were assigned to four groups and when you were in the first grade, you were assigned to a group and you stayed in that group all the time you were in high school.\u00a0 And during the time that we had rally day, we had people on the debating team, and we had track events and relays and things like that, and each year you chose cowboys or sailors or something, and you wore costumes or something like that.\u00a0 It was a fun day.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Did you play any sports?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 I played tennis.\u00a0 I played for the high school team, and I played for Delta State.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you all do anything for May Day?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yeah, we had the Maypole dance.\u00a0 I don\u2019t remember much else besides that.\u00a0 I remember there was a house up there that Mr. Parks, who was the superintendent, lived in, and I remember I did the Maypole dance in his yard.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t remember much else about that.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Was the confederate monument already up on the courthouse?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 As far as I can remember.\u00a0 There is a monument on the side of the courthouse.\u00a0 And I don\u2019t know what it is, but I went up to its dedication.\u00a0 I remember getting out of school and marching in line.\u00a0 It faces Denton\u2019s.\u00a0 And I\u2019ve often thought I\u2019d go up there and see what it was.\u00a0 Anyway, I don\u2019t know what grade I was in, but we marched up there to dedicate it.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was Highway 8 a very busy road?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh yes.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 But you all would cross it, all three of you on a bicycle, would cross it to go to school?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 We rode on the sidewalk, crossed it to go to the service station.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t ride in the street.\u00a0 It was an effort to get three people.\u00a0 I played in the band, and I played a French horn.\u00a0 But I guess I left it at school because I know all three of us couldn\u2019t ride on that bicycle with a French horn.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Do you have any other questions?<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 I think that was it for me.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Did you know Dr. Ringold?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 I live in his house.\u00a0 Do you know any stories about him or the house?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 No.\u00a0 His first wife died.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Was that Sadie\u2019s mother?\u00a0 Or was she from the second marriage?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 She was from the first marriage.\u00a0 And then he married again, and they didn\u2019t live in the house.\u00a0 They moved to one of the apartments\u2014one of the apartments closest to Delta State.\u00a0 She shot him.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 That\u2019s what I heard.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 After his wife died, he became a heavy drinker; and she was, too.\u00a0 They had a trial.\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember a lot about that, but I know she was not convicted of it.\u00a0 I think it was more or less defensive shooting.\u00a0 They were both real bad about drinking.\u00a0 In fact, I don\u2019t think he practiced the last years.\u00a0 He was in with Dr. Fitzgerald at one time.\u00a0 He was a real nice, real pleasant man.\u00a0 I never did know his wife, and I barely knew Sadie Mae.\u00a0 But I do remember the house.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Because I live in it, I would\u2026<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Yea.\u00a0 It was one of the older houses in Cleveland.<\/p>\n

Dr. M:\u00a0 Well, this has been very enjoyable.\u00a0 You\u2019ve told us a lot of information.\u00a0 Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 You\u2019re quite welcome.\u00a0 I\u2019ll bring my picture with the billy goat by sometime.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Well can we keep those?<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 Oh sure.\u00a0 You\u2019re welcome to have these.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want them back.\u00a0 I have another picture of my dad and Mr. Malone.\u00a0 That was a big thing for Cotton Row.\u00a0 A lot of them would go up on Cotton Row and play dominoes.\u00a0 They actually had a domino table.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever seen one or not, but it has a board that has holes in it where you can move a slot to count 5 and 10.\u00a0 It was built by a local man.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know where it is now.<\/p>\n

EW:\u00a0 Well, thank you very much.\u00a0 It\u2019s been great.<\/p>\n

DM:\u00a0 You\u2019re welcome.\u00a0 I hope I\u2019ve helped some.<\/p>\n

TAPE STOPS<\/p>\n

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END OF DOCUMENT<\/strong><\/p>\n

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