{"id":9344,"date":"2023-04-20T20:21:26","date_gmt":"2023-04-20T20:21:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/?page_id=9344"},"modified":"2023-04-20T20:21:26","modified_gmt":"2023-04-20T20:21:26","slug":"billy-joe-mccain-oral-history","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/billy-joe-mccain-oral-history\/","title":{"rendered":"Billy Joe McCain Oral History"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][divider line_type=”No Line”][vc_column_text]\n

Billy Joe McCain Oral History<\/span><\/h1>\n[\/vc_column_text][divider line_type=”No Line”][page_submenu alignment=”center” sticky=”true” bg_color=”#008542″ link_color=”#ffffff”][page_link link_url=” https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/manuscripts-and-guides\/” title=”Manuscripts & Subject Guides<\/strong>” id=”1682021628180-10″ tab_id=”1682021628180-9″] [\/page_link][page_link link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/guides-to-the-collection-page\/” title=”Collections Portal<\/strong>” id=”1682021628188-8″ tab_id=”1682021628188-9″] [\/page_link][page_link title=”Visit<\/strong>” id=”1682021635506-1″ tab_id=”1682021635507-2″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/visit\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Make a Request<\/strong>” id=”1682021636268-6″ tab_id=”1682021636269-4″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/requests\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”About Us<\/strong>” id=”1682021637205-4″ tab_id=”1682021637206-3″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments-archives-museum-about-us\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Yearbooks Online<\/strong>” id=”1682021637918-8″ tab_id=”1682021637919-7″ link_url=” https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/yearbooks-alumni-magazines-delta-state-histories\/”][\/page_link][\/page_submenu][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_column_text]McCain, Billy\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Tape 1 of 2\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 9\/19\/99<\/strong><\/p>\n

By Worth Long<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

This is an interview for the Mississippi Oral History Program.\u00a0 It is being recorded with Mr. Billy McCain in his residence on September 19, 1999.\u00a0 The interviewer is Mr. Worth Long.<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Can you tell me your name, and when and where you were born please?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 My name is Billy Joe McCain Sr.\u00a0 I was born in Memphis, TN in 1936.\u00a0 I lived there for about four years when my parents divorced.\u00a0 My mother and father\u2019s homes were in Mississippi.\u00a0 My mother returned home to live with her parents in Grenada, MS.\u00a0 I have a sister that is two years older than I am.\u00a0 My mother moved back with her parents.\u00a0 Her parents matter of fact raised all of us.\u00a0 It was kind of thing.\u00a0\u00a0 It was that kind of thing in the early years.\u00a0 I came from what you might say a single parent family.\u00a0 The father was absent during my childhood.\u00a0 Matter of fact during my life he was gone.\u00a0 I knew him, but we didn\u2019t have closeness or the support.\u00a0 It was the grandparents that raised us.\u00a0 I am very grateful to them for their love and commitment to us.\u00a0 My mother was educated.\u00a0 She did complete high school.\u00a0 At that time, you could teach school as a high school graduate.\u00a0 My mother for a while was a schoolteacher.\u00a0 Then when the educational requirements became greater or increased that disqualified her.\u00a0 My mother did domestic work.\u00a0 She worked as a maid.\u00a0 My grandfather worked for the Railroad Company in the freight yard.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 When were they born, your grandparents?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 My grandparents were born.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know the year, but they were born naturally in the 1800\u2019s.\u00a0 They were born south of Grenada in a little town they call Elliot, MS.\u00a0 My grandfather was the son of a former slave.\u00a0 There was a large family there.\u00a0 They owned a lot of property in Elliot, MS where camp McCain and I exist, but there is no relationship of my name, McCain, to that of Camp McCain.\u00a0 My grandparents were Hardymans.\u00a0 They were born and raised south of Grenada.\u00a0 At the time of freedom of slavery, my grandfather\u2019s father and his brothers were giving a lot of land there.\u00a0 So they had a lot of land there.\u00a0 They farmed that land.\u00a0 They did quite well.\u00a0 The land was very attractive to others.\u00a0 It was not long after that, that the property became indebted because of taxes other things that they said doing that time.\u00a0 It was taking away from them.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 That was from the County Courthouse?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Yes, right.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Was that a general practice?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 That seemed like that was a general practice during those years because there were a lot of blacks that owned land.\u00a0 That had been handed to them from there former slave bosses. That was what they called the forty acres and a mule.\u00a0 This was much more than forty acres and much more than a mule.\u00a0 They were not able to hold that land.\u00a0 They did for a few years.\u00a0 I have been told.\u00a0 They had to give it up.\u00a0 Matter of fact there were raids on the property.\u00a0 One of my grandfather\u2019s brothers was killed from one of the raids on the property.\u00a0 They had to run them off.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 When you say a raid, I don\u2019t quite understand?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well, a raid is like I guess there were others that had an interest in the property for whatever reason.\u00a0 It was the way that blacks was treated.\u00a0 They would come through and burn and shoot, trying to run you off.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Was it organizational?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well, I don\u2019t know whether it was organizational or not. It appears to me that the characteristics would put it in that manner.\u00a0 Anyway, we tried several years after that, my grandfather\u2019s effort all of his life was to try to regain ownership of that property.\u00a0 We were never able to get it back.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 As you extend through your history, what was it like going to school during the period?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 I went to segregated school naturally.\u00a0 We lived what we call in Grenada across town by the railroad station across the tracks.\u00a0 That is where we lived.\u00a0 The schools that my sister and I attended were almost on the other side of town.\u00a0 It was about two miles.\u00a0 We had to walk to school from where we lived.\u00a0 About mid-way there, the down town area there were schools there, but that were schools that we could not attend.\u00a0 The schools that we had to attend segregated schools were a mile further.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 So you had to walk past the other schools?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yeah, we had to walk past several schools everyday to get to the school that we had to attend.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Now I am wondering why you didn\u2019t take the school buses?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 They didn\u2019t have school buses.\u00a0 They had no school bus then.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 The schools you walked past did they?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yeah there was busses there.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 There were busses at what place?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 There were busses at the schools that we had to walk past, but there were no busses that ran from where we lived to where we attended.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 In terms of ethnic characterization, what you had a black school and a white school.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yeah we had black schools, and you had white schools.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 I see.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 The schools were named.\u00a0 You see the school that I attended was Grenada Colored School.\u00a0 It was the School for Colored.\u00a0 The name of the school that I attended was Grenada Colored School.\u00a0 It remained that up until after the fifties there.\u00a0 The schools that I attended was Grenada Colored School, Grenada Colored High School.\u00a0 I graduated in 1954, and I graduated from Grenada Colored High School.\u00a0 They built a new a school, when they came up with the separate but equal law.\u00a0 They built a new school.\u00a0 That school was named after one of the school\u2019s principles that we had, Ms. Kara Dotson.\u00a0 She was on that school faculty at the time that I begin school.\u00a0 I remember her so very well.\u00a0 I knew her all of my life.\u00a0 Afterwards, when they built the new school, they named that school after her.\u00a0 It was Kara Dotson High School.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 In terms of educational aspirations, what as a young person what did you think about based on what you have experienced?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Actually, I can\u2019t speak for all of the class, all of my classmates.\u00a0 There were some differences in background, economics.\u00a0 As I mentioned, my grandparents and mother raised me.\u00a0 We were a poor family.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have an automobile.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have telephones.\u00a0 We were poor, but matter of fact I didn\u2019t realize that we were that poor.\u00a0 There was love in the family.\u00a0 There was never a lack of love in the family.\u00a0 As a result of having so much love, there was always food to eat.\u00a0 In terms of some of the other necessities, you might say.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have all of that.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Let me put it this way.\u00a0 What did you want to be when you were going to school?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well, I really didn\u2019t know.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t have a lot of aspiration.\u00a0 I did not.\u00a0 I had real good teachers.\u00a0 I recall those teachers.\u00a0 They really took an interest in me.\u00a0 I really had no aspirations because I had no exposure.\u00a0 The only thing that we could see for blacks that to be a preacher or a teacher.\u00a0 I had really no aspirations for any of that.\u00a0 Matter of fact, I joined the army when I was sixteen.\u00a0 In school, as I grew older, I was always a person that had a lot of respect for adults, my teachers.\u00a0 I was also a person that was trying to make it.\u00a0 I had jobs.\u00a0 I can\u2019t remember a time that I didn\u2019t have a job.\u00a0 Even when we lived across the track, there were always the W. W. II, Camp McCain was there.\u00a0 There was a troop train that came through.\u00a0 Those guys couldn\u2019t get off the train, but there was stores right up the street.\u00a0 So I ran errands, and I shined shoes.\u00a0 That is how I made my little pocket change or what have you.\u00a0 Sometimes people would say, well you when you grow older, you never picked any cotton.\u00a0 No I never pick any cotton because there was not any to pick.\u00a0 I always had little jobs to do.\u00a0 I guess I matured a lot faster than some of the other children may have.\u00a0 The Boy Scouts I was just overwhelmed with that experience.\u00a0 That is a glad opportunity.\u00a0 That is one of the few things that a black child and we had.\u00a0 We could participate in.\u00a0 There was one guy that still exists, and he is very dear to me.\u00a0 His name is Nathaniel Bo Claire.\u00a0 Nathaniel Bo Claire came to Grenada when I was in the eighth grade.\u00a0 It was at that time we had this male figure, a role model.\u00a0 We could identify with him.\u00a0\u00a0 He and some of the other guys there took an interest in the young boys.\u00a0 He was a boys scout troops troopmaster.\u00a0 Then we got into high school, and we had high school football coach.\u00a0 I loved scouting, and I loved playing football.\u00a0 After that there wasn\u2019t too much really.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 What position did you play?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 I played line backer.\u00a0 So that was basically all that I wanted to do.\u00a0 I call myself with the strength and with the vigor.\u00a0 I just wanted to hit somebody. \u00a0I just wanted to drive them to the ground.\u00a0 I thought that is what you had to do in order to make it.\u00a0 You got to be just a strong person.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t realize in the man and education that you really needed.\u00a0 Mine came mostly from the physical aspect.\u00a0 In order to amount to anything in this world, you got to be strong.\u00a0 I developed the strength physically.\u00a0 I was a little short when it came to strength mentally.\u00a0 So I didn\u2019t have all those aspirations.\u00a0 Like I said, I joined the army when I was sixteen.\u00a0 I never got on active duty because my mother found out about it just before we were ready to ship out.\u00a0 We had all that annulled because of age.\u00a0 It was a bunch of us guys that did that.\u00a0 Then after completion of high school, I had scholarships to play football in college.\u00a0 Then again, I didn\u2019t have that motivation.\u00a0 My self-esteem wasn\u2019t at that level, and being from a poor family, even with scholarships, there were other needs.\u00a0 I did have a sister in college at the time.\u00a0 I knew that my parents were put to doing everything that they could for my sister.\u00a0 She was in school.\u00a0 She had two years that I had graduated from high school.\u00a0 I did go in to service.\u00a0 I volunteered again.\u00a0 I went into the Air Force.\u00a0 My mother being a single person, I was able to make out a Class Q Allotment to her.\u00a0 That helped with some of the family needs.\u00a0 When I was discharge from service.\u00a0 I did a tour in the state of Washington.\u00a0 I also did a tour in Korea.\u00a0 When I returned home, I was discharged.\u00a0 My mother and my sister just insisted that I go to college.\u00a0 I really didn\u2019t think too much of it then.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 What were you trained in, in the service?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 M. O. S., I was in Tech Supply.\u00a0 I was in Technical Supply.\u00a0 It was at this time that I came to realize that I could achieve.\u00a0 I did fairly well according to those standings.\u00a0 I was selected as Base Airman of the Month.\u00a0 I made rank pretty well.\u00a0 So blacks at that time, at the first tour of duty of service there, I excelled to the rank of Sergeant.\u00a0 I saw that I could achieve.\u00a0 Then I was exposed to a lot of other things then.\u00a0 I really wanted to make a career in service.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Cat along here you induction into the basic training.\u00a0 Go through the time you became a Sergeant up until you were discharged.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well, my basic training went into Lakeland Airforce Base in Sanatonio, Texas.\u00a0 From there I went to the state of Washington to Paine Airforce Base in Everett, Washington.\u00a0 I was assigned to the Tech Supply Division there.\u00a0 I was that after the Airman Basic and after the training of what have you, I became an Airman of third class.\u00a0 Then my next promotion was that to of.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Staff Sergeant<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 No, it went from Basic to Airman First Class.\u00a0 Then it went to Second Class.\u00a0 Then after that I went to what you call Bug Sergeant.\u00a0 Then in 1955, I was then shipped out to Korea.\u00a0 The war was just over with at the time that I got there.\u00a0 So we were basically the peace keeping and the clean up.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 How did you get there transportation wise?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh my goodness, I will never shall forget that.\u00a0 Matter of fact I started to enlist again right there in Korea.\u00a0 I went over there.\u00a0 I was shipped out from San Francisco Bay Harbor.\u00a0 I was on a ship that was the U. S. S. General Patrick.\u00a0 That voyage was thirty days long.\u00a0 It was thirty days from San Francisco Bay to Inchan Harbor, Korea.\u00a0 I think that was the most miserable thirty days that I ever spent in my life.\u00a0 I don\u2019t care too much now about boat cruises.\u00a0 They got these Luxury Liners.\u00a0 I don\u2019t care anything about them.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Who took your baggage up to the game plank?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh I did.\u00a0 I took my duffel bag.\u00a0 Everything I had was wrapped around on me and on my shoulder.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t so bad going up it from Frisco Bay.\u00a0 When we got to Inchan Harbor, there was no dock.\u00a0 So we evacuated the ships two or three hundred yards out.\u00a0 We got on what we call the amphibious boats there.\u00a0 They rolled out there and picked us up.\u00a0 Matter of fact this was in the month of January.\u00a0 It was cold.\u00a0 We finally got settle down.\u00a0 That was an experience.\u00a0 When I separated from service, I came back by air.\u00a0 It was a lot better.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 So you were decorated with the United Nations Service Metal?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yes.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Tell me what you received?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well, the one I am most proud of was I had a good conduct medal.\u00a0 Then I had the Medal of Foreign Service.\u00a0 I came back to California.\u00a0 I came back to Oakland.\u00a0 That is where I was discharged.\u00a0 Then I came home to stay awhile.\u00a0 Then I was going to re-enlist.\u00a0 My mother and my sister felt so strongly about me going to school.\u00a0 I decided that just to satisfy them I would go to school.\u00a0 My sister had applications sent to Tennessee University.\u00a0 She had it approved.\u00a0 I talked with the coach over at Valley.\u00a0 He was still interested with me playing ball.\u00a0 So I went to school over at Mississippi Valley State University on a football scholarship.\u00a0 Of course my tenure didn\u2019t last long there.\u00a0 I was nearly injured the first year.\u00a0 I got my leg broke right in the knee.\u00a0 It left me with a slight limp.\u00a0 Therefore, I was never able to return there to play football.\u00a0 So I stayed there.\u00a0 Then I met a young lady there.\u00a0 Her name was Sylvia Spearman, who was Miss Valley State University.\u00a0 She took interest in me.\u00a0 We started a courtship.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 This was before or after the broken leg?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 This was before the broken leg.\u00a0 We decided that we were meant for each other.\u00a0 It was during that time that Sam Cook was real popular with all his songs.\u00a0 Jerry Buckler was one of those guys.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 What were some of the songs that Sam would sing?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well you know.\u00a0 Jerry Buckler had \u201cYour Precious Love\u201d.\u00a0 Sam Cook was \u201cYou Were Meant For Me.\u201d\u00a0 There were a number of these good songs.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t have to say too much.\u00a0\u00a0 You had songs at that time to express your feelings.\u00a0 I got all excited and everything.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 So you are saying that those songs were appropriate for your relationship?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Absolutely<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Your Precious Love, You Were Meant for Me.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh absolutely, you know we still hum them around the house even now after forty-three years.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 In terms of letter organizations, what organizations were you and your wife in college?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well we didn\u2019t have Greek organizations at the time that we were at school, Mississippi Valley.\u00a0 I did join the graduate Chapter of Omega Si Phi.\u00a0 I am still current with the Omega Si Phi.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Now lets look at how you got to Delta State at a later time.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well the journey at South for educational wise, after I got injured playing football.\u00a0 I went straight on through school.\u00a0 My first job out of school was at Shaw.\u00a0 That was in Bolivar County.\u00a0 It was Mac Evan\u2019s School.\u00a0 I had made applications to a number of places with teaching positions and principles or what have you.\u00a0 My wife was working in S haw.\u00a0 She had a job working at Shaw there.\u00a0 I talked with the school principle there who was Fred Altimer.\u00a0 He was interested in me coming and working with him.\u00a0 I did.\u00a0 I appreciated it.\u00a0 I did the best job that I could do.\u00a0 I was very proud and fond of being a part of that faculty.\u00a0 Particularly working with the children in the Mississippi Delta was good for me.\u00a0 In that classroom, those kids, matter of fact, I have some working in the office with me now that I taught.\u00a0 Matter of fact, they are all over the county.\u00a0 Those were kids that I taught when I was teaching school in Shaw.\u00a0 That is where I really got my education.\u00a0 I could identify with those kids.\u00a0 I knew what were their needs were.\u00a0 I knew all their trials and tribulations that they were having to deal with.\u00a0 I identify with them on a very positive way.\u00a0 There were two things right now that I never regret having done.\u00a0 That was the experience that I had in the military and the experience that I had teaching school for those six years that I taught.\u00a0 Those are some of the experiences that I had that contributed largely to my existence even today.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 What did you learn from each?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well in military, I learned a little bit of discipline for one thing.\u00a0 I did learn that I could achieve.\u00a0 I was already a team player because I had an experience in high school.\u00a0 I played football.\u00a0 I had all my little friends.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t call them gangs then, but they were friends.\u00a0 We were closely knitted.\u00a0 I learned a lot from that experience.\u00a0 In the military, I learned that I got exposed to other things in the world that I had not been.\u00a0 I had a lot of experiences.\u00a0 I learned that I could achieve.\u00a0 I learned that I could be somebody.\u00a0 I knew that there was another life out here beyond that of Grenada.\u00a0 There were other things that you could do.\u00a0 Teaching school, I learned there that those kids not only get from the textbook, but they needed an education in life itself.\u00a0 I was still learning myself.\u00a0 I could really identify with them.\u00a0 I had an appreciation for those children.\u00a0 I think they had an appreciation for me.\u00a0 We were just a good experience.\u00a0 I could watch them grow.\u00a0 I could watch kids attitudes change from what they were.\u00a0 To give them a more positive outlook on life, where they too can be more successful.\u00a0 That is the direction that we moved in.\u00a0 I mean to tell you I have lots of kids now.\u00a0 I could bring to you that would say I am real proud of you.\u00a0 Oh yeah absolutely.\u00a0 You see in that situation, this was in segregation too.\u00a0 These were segregated schools.\u00a0 This was in the early sixties.\u00a0 This is when we had motor rights acts and what have you that were being passed.\u00a0 Still black people were being denied the privilege to vote.\u00a0 We still had segregated facilities every where.\u00a0 We had to deal all those barriers.\u00a0 We had a superintendent at that school down there, named Ario Thorn.\u00a0 He was by far the most raciest person that I had ever came in contact with.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 What do you mean?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 He was the most raciest person, and I say that publicly.\u00a0 I would say that to him.\u00a0 He was the most raciest person that I had ever seen.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Give me an example.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Number one, he had no respect for the school principles or faculty.\u00a0 He would come in, and he would just talk down to you.\u00a0 He would call meetings when we were protest.\u00a0 He would let you know in no certain terms that he did not support any of that all.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t even support you voting. (Tape cut off.)\u00a0 We only did what ever I was going to do when I got out of school.\u00a0 I traveled from Shaw to my hometown; Grenada, almost every evening, and I did the same almost every weekend.\u00a0 I had the opportunity to work with him in a different kind of way.\u00a0 I think he was in custom to working with blacks.\u00a0 I let him know up front even though I knew we were in a segregated system.\u00a0 I let him know up front that I was my own man, and nobody else was going to take that away from me.\u00a0 Now what he would do also was when we had title one programs.\u00a0 Title one programs were programs that the legislated by Congress and funded in order to put money into school systems to improve those systems for underprivileged children.\u00a0 You know that bastard down at the Shaw school district denied it.\u00a0 I mean he would not accept any title one money.\u00a0 He denied these kids of equipment and services that they were entitled to.\u00a0 He as a superintendent made that decision.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to go by what the school board wants.\u00a0 He as a superintendent denied these kids from those benefits.\u00a0 I told him about it.\u00a0 Oh absolutely, he told me that we didn\u2019t want any federal money.\u00a0 I said that was for the children.\u00a0 You are depriving them of that.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 This was your superintendent?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yes,<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Did he himself go to white school or black schools?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 He was a White from Attala.\u00a0 Now you should understand.\u00a0 If I am not mistaken he came over from Alabama.\u00a0 He said many times he was not a Mississippian.\u00a0 He would accustom to the ways of Mississippi.\u00a0 He had very little respect for the school principle, Altimer that was there.\u00a0 Matter of fact, he would talk to me on a number of occasions about taking the job as principle.\u00a0 I would always tell him that we had a principle.\u00a0 That is who I work for.\u00a0 I let him know who my immediate supervisor was.\u00a0 I did a lot of reports for the school.\u00a0 I would work with the school principle and assisting him in doing things.\u00a0 The superintendent would have me come over to his office. He would say to me that we got to get this bus report.\u00a0 We have to do these attendance reports.\u00a0 He said they are due in by the fifth of next month.\u00a0 If you want to have some fun, you go back and you tell Altimer I want this on my desk by Monday morning.\u00a0 I told him, I said that with all do respect.\u00a0 His name was Ario Thorn.\u00a0 I said with all do respect to you Mr. Thorn, Mr. Altimer is my supervisor.\u00a0 I work for him.\u00a0 I don\u2019t play with him.\u00a0 From then on he left me alone with stuff like that.\u00a0 I stayed there for six years.\u00a0 Then the Community Acts Agency was organized in 1965.\u00a0 The legislature.<\/p>\n

WL: Under what jurisdiction?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 It was President Lyden B. Johnson.\u00a0 This was an equal opportunity act of 1964.\u00a0 In which they declared the war on poverty.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 This was part of his great.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Yeah, this was part of his Great Society Program.\u00a0 This was an effort to alleviate in poverty conditions in America.\u00a0 Well while working in the Shaw School system, I had the opportunity to apply for admission into Jackson State University\u2019s graduate school for disadvantage youth.\u00a0 This was a program that was funded by the department of education.\u00a0 Doctor Jane McAlester was the director of that program.\u00a0 I was in this program that I really, really learned a lot about disadvantaged youth.\u00a0 Those people that were culturally deprived.\u00a0 To relate in that myself and my childhood days growing up and even as of then and even as of now, there was a lot of disadvantaged people.\u00a0 There was a lot of information there.\u00a0\u00a0 It stimulated my interest and really I tried to do all that I could possibly could to alleviate to bring about a change in the disadvantages that we had been subjected to all of these years.\u00a0 I looked at programs, and to see how we could fit into these programs that would provide some services to children and families that would enhance their lively hood because of all the cultural and segregated deviations that they had suffered.\u00a0 This was prior to the E. O. A. act of 1964.\u00a0 If I am not mistaken, it may have been about 1963 or somewhere in that area.\u00a0 The Community Action Agency, the community action program concept was introduced to Bolivar County in 1965.\u00a0 There were community meetings that were held all over the county.\u00a0 I took an interest in those community meetings looking to see what kinds of programs and what did the community action agency, or community action program have to offer to the children and to the families that would help them.\u00a0 Not knowing a lot about it, this is what I could pick up on it.\u00a0 I wrote a proposal while in the Shaw School district there.\u00a0 I call community meetings, and I gathered all the information.\u00a0 I was doing things as looking at the needs of children in terms of those children that needed shoes in order to continue in school.\u00a0 They might have needed clothing.\u00a0 Those children needed transportation.\u00a0 Just what ever the family needs were, I thought through the community action agency that those things could be made available.\u00a0 So I got about the business of writing a proposal.\u00a0 I wrote a great big proposal.\u00a0 It provided hope.\u00a0 It gave me some aspirations to say here we have the opportunity to do something for these children, and particularly in light of the system itself we were in, being a segregated system, and being denied of other benefits that other children all around us were enjoying.\u00a0 This was a great opportunity, and of course my proposal was not funded.\u00a0 It was well received.\u00a0 My proposal was not in accordance with the mission.\u00a0 Well it was in accordance with the mission, but it was not in accordance with the service delivery or the community action agency but certainly of a product of it.\u00a0 There were other things that you had to do in order to bring this about through organization and through collaboration.\u00a0 I had to pondering with other state agencies fairly locally.\u00a0 You could acquire some of these needs.\u00a0 You could get some of those things to meet those needs.\u00a0 I did all of this, and I became familiar with it.\u00a0 I would do the community meetings and organizing the Community Action Agency.\u00a0 My territory was that of the Shaw community where we organized.\u00a0 The Community Action Agency board of directors had been appointed and what have you.\u00a0 They were about the business going out to all of the towns and explaining the program to them.\u00a0 This would gain support.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Finally we were able to pull all of that together from that particular effort from the Community Action Agency and its incorporation and chartered in 1965.\u00a0 Then this made the agency eligible to apply for the first summer head start program.\u00a0 Of course it was in 1966 that the Community Action Agency in Bolivar County was funded for the Summer Head Start Program.\u00a0 I was still in the Shaw School district.\u00a0 I served as the Center Director for the Shaw Head Start Center.\u00a0 A. C. Isaac, who was principle of the Nella Elementary School here in Cleveland, served as the Head Start Project Director.\u00a0 He was the first Head Start Project Director.\u00a0 At the end of the summer program, A. C. Isaac decided that he would remain in the Cleveland School District as the principle of the school that he worked in.\u00a0 Therefore, he recommended me to become the project director for the Bolivar County Community Action Agency Program.\u00a0 Of course from that recommendation, then the Community Action Agency board of directors did appoint me to this position in the summer of 1966.\u00a0 Our challenges were very great because of the fact that during all of the summer months we had access to all the school buildings in all of the county as well as transportation, but when the public school reopened those school buildings were no longer available to us nether the transportation.\u00a0 Also staff, the summer program, a lot of the staff particularly a lot of the teachers came from the public schools.\u00a0 All of those people went back to their original jobs.\u00a0 So we were left with the challenge of continuing to operate.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Now give me an assessment of the success of that program.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh very successful, the First Summer Program was very successful.\u00a0 It was very successful in that it did things for children that you wouldn\u2019t ever believed.\u00a0 It offered employment opportunities to people who would have never had the chance to work.\u00a0 It was parents, the people who were unskilled.\u00a0 We had all kinds of training programs, and I am going to go into all of that.\u00a0 That was a part of the agenda of looking at what our needs were to continue Head Start and to provide quality services to Head Start children.\u00a0 We had barriers to overcome such as that of adequate facilities.\u00a0 We needed competent classroom staff transportation even the barrier of the State of Mississippi, was the governor if I am not mistaken.\u00a0 I know John Bell Williams came in later.\u00a0 I forget the name of the governor prior to him.\u00a0 They actually vetoed Head Start Programs from coming into the state of Mississippi.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 That was before or after Governor Johnson?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 I am trying to recall.\u00a0 It may have been during the Johnson administration.\u00a0 I don\u2019t recall specifically whom the governor was at that time with out going back and researching it.\u00a0 I don\u2019t recall, but I do know that programs were vetoed in 1966 and 1967.\u00a0 The federal government had to override those vetoes in order for Head Start to be funded.\u00a0 So there were periods of time, that we operated with out any funds at all.\u00a0 There were periods of time that we operated with no funds.\u00a0 Staff was not paid.\u00a0 The community as well as staff would make donations of food, transportation or what have you in order to keep the children in the centers.\u00a0 We had to use.\u00a0 We are real grateful and thankful to everybody who made what ever they had available to us.\u00a0 That included churches and even barns.\u00a0 We had to operate in because of not having the adequate facilities.\u00a0 Then of course when we continued to operate, we put forth the effort by reducing our operations in some costs and some area there to free up money that we could put into facilities.\u00a0 We did all of that.\u00a0 We contracted our transportation out to local people who were able to participate in the program then by providing transportation and being paid for it.\u00a0 Head Start offered a lot opportunities.\u00a0 It brought about a tremendous economic and social change not only for the benefit of the children in Head Start in terms of their child development.\u00a0 Well in terms of family and community developments, I mean it brought about a tremendous change.\u00a0 I often people that I say this.\u00a0 I say this with out reservation, and I say this with out hesitation.\u00a0 That when we look back from where we started from, let\u2019s not forget.\u00a0 Let\u2019s forget the foundation because where did we come from.\u00a0 We came from the kitchens and the cotton fields.\u00a0 You came from a society that you were denied participation in and economic, social, and political process.\u00a0 Head Start liberated you.\u00a0 It gave you independence from oppression and deprivation.\u00a0 It gave you that independence that you need.\u00a0 Now you have the right to vote.\u00a0 Now you can go vote with out your job being threatened.\u00a0 That is any number of advantages that you do have.\u00a0 Let\u2019s not forget the problem that we had to was that in terms of the staff itself.\u00a0 I do recall this governor, John Bell Williams that threatened to and vetoed Head Start programs because he had the state to legislate a requirement that all Head Start teachers have at least two years of college.\u00a0 Eighty or seventy percent of our teachers had not advanced to that level, but they had a love and a desire.\u00a0 Through Head Start, one component of Head Start, was that of Career development and training.\u00a0 Our mission was to employ parents primarily and other people in entry level positions.\u00a0 I wanted to train them, and let them credentialize that would make them employable in other institutions.\u00a0 Now we have done an excellent job with that.\u00a0 We have parents now who came into Head Start with less than an high school diploma that got their G. E. D.\u00a0 They went on and continued their education and got their B. S. degree.\u00a0 Some have got their master\u2019s degree.\u00a0 They went on into Head Start into public schools, universities, and other places.\u00a0 There are a lot of success stories.\u00a0 It was just the other day, one day last week that it came to my attention, that one of our favorite staff people who worked with us initially, who was employed in the health component.\u00a0 The acquired a L. P. N.\u00a0 I am sure that this person wouldn\u2019t mind me saying this, but this is a person that was a mother before finishing high school.\u00a0 She came into Head Start and provided the opportunity for training.\u00a0 We provided the release stamp of training.\u00a0 This person went on to be a L. P. N.\u00a0 That person to be a registered nurse.\u00a0 This person left Head Start and went back to school.\u00a0\u00a0 She went on to a P. N. P., a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner.\u00a0 She started her on business.\u00a0 Now she is in seeing Head Start children.\u00a0 I was told just the other day, and I did not know this because this is a very modest person.\u00a0 That this person now has a Ph D in Public Health.\u00a0 Now all of this was due to Head Start.\u00a0\u00a0 We had a parent, Willie Summons, he tells the story all of the time.\u00a0 Willie Summons, as a parent in our demonstration center had never taken out the time to participate or support programs for children until his child had the opportunity to be enrolled in a Head Start center.\u00a0 He went out to see what it was all about.\u00a0 He fell in love with it like most parents do.\u00a0 He went on to be the State of Mississippi Parent Association President.\u00a0 He went on to become the President of the National Head Start Parent Association.\u00a0 He used his experience and his knowledge he acquired and his appreciation for people that he decided to run for the state senate.\u00a0 He ran for the state Senate, and he was elected over women.\u00a0 So there is a lot of success stories that we can tell from Head Start experiences.\u00a0 As we continued to operate and hear again with career development.\u00a0 This was an opportunity for me as the Head Start program director.\u00a0 This was an opportunity for me to continue my education because I was at the B. S. degree level.\u00a0 Delta State University, right here in our own yard, if you might say was an excellent opportunity for me.\u00a0 That meant that I had to go to no place or do anything.\u00a0 As being a veteran, I still had my G. I. Bill of Rights.\u00a0 I still had education time remaining.\u00a0 So if we are working and trying to improve ourselves and trying to uplift ourselves, certainly I have got to try to exhibit some kind of leadership here.\u00a0 So out of all the mist of all the work or what have you, I enrolled in Delta State University in the graduate school for management and school administration.\u00a0 So I received my master\u2019s degree in school administration.\u00a0 I appreciate the opportunity, and I am really grateful for that.\u00a0 We have other staff here who also took advantage of the opportunities with Career and Development.\u00a0 They continued their training.\u00a0 They are on the degree level.\u00a0 They are satisfied in what they are doing.\u00a0 All of our classrooms are staffed now with teachers.\u00a0 All of our teachers that we have now are at minimal.\u00a0 They are A degree certified, or they are C. D. A. certified.\u00a0 C. D. A. is Child Development Association.\u00a0 That is what you have to enter into formal training in order to acquire that.\u00a0 It is a competent based certification.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 The A. A. degree is a community college general associate?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Right, so all of our classroom teacher at a minimum is at that level.\u00a0 Seventy-five percent of our classroom teacher\u2019s assistants are at that level.\u00a0 All our Center Administrators have succeeded that level.\u00a0 So the growth in terms of education has been very rapid.\u00a0 Of course the result of that we all know in the better quality program.\u00a0 There is better quality services for children and family as a result not only experience but training to.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Would you characterize this as supplemental educational experience in the sense that there is.\u00a0 You had worked in Shaw as a teacher under a principle and superintendent.\u00a0 Is it an addition to what the child gets?\u00a0 Or is it preparatory in a real sense?\u00a0 Which part plays the biggest role?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well it is preparatory.\u00a0 That plays a great role.\u00a0 It is preparing me to become trained in what it is that is expected of the job itself.\u00a0 That is to move forward.\u00a0 Training and experience to advance the program because we have to realize that change itself takes place.\u00a0 Nobody, absolutely anybody expected Head Start to last as long as it has.\u00a0 Nobody expected that.\u00a0 Matter of fact, Head Start is still a demonstration program.\u00a0 It is not yet an entitled a program.\u00a0 It is a demonstration program in which it has to be reauthorized about every three or four years.\u00a0 It continues to be reauthorized.\u00a0 I think America itself realizes the value of it and what investment regards in.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It seems to be no problem.\u00a0 We just got real good support.\u00a0 Of course there is always some objection or some.\u00a0 Every politician for the most part, the president they are just elated over what Head Start does. (Tape cut off.)\u00a0 Right now and particularly in the state of Mississippi, our programs have done so well here that it is just unbelievable.\u00a0 It is just beyond the stretch of anybody\u2019s imagination as to what we are able to do.\u00a0 The Head Start\u2019s performance standards even on the federal level, on the federal level, they give directions for Head Start.\u00a0 They set the standards that every program must achieve at a minimal.\u00a0 Those standards are increasing as everybody gains experience.\u00a0 We have been able to meet those challenges, every one.\u00a0 We have been able to succeed those challenges in every instance.\u00a0 Right now we are looking at change itself, and the thrust of education.\u00a0 Particularly with the new studies on Brain research and beginning at an early age, they are even doing prenatal preparation of the child. There is a lot of interest on the part of the institution of higher learning, the state department of education.\u00a0 We are all coming together now, and looking at educational programs for the children beginning at a very early age.\u00a0 We have early head start now, which is zero to three years of age.\u00a0 We are looking at parent involvement, and how a parent would involve parents as being a part of the child\u2019s education.\u00a0 All of these things are coming after Head Start has proven.\u00a0 Head Start has set forth a motto, in which you can bring about these changes by which you can learn and bring parents into their education of their children.\u00a0 Right now we are participating in a study that was initiated by state legislator, Charles Yong, who is chairman of the Education Committee in the State house of representatives with the institution of higher learning.\u00a0 Mississippi State University now has a study that is looking at the development of what we call the singulous curriculum.\u00a0 That is that the services and the education plans or what have you for children at Head Start is to how to continue that.\u00a0 You see what happens is that when a child is in Head Start, when you have all the parent\u2019s support and what have you.\u00a0 When this child goes into the public schools, about the third or fourth grade, that child has lost every thing that they have gained in Head Start.\u00a0 What we say in Head Start is that look we were fine when we gave them to you, now we wonder what happened to them.\u00a0 We are not blaming anybody for it.\u00a0 We are not saying to the public schools that you haven\u2019t done your job.\u00a0 We are not saying that.\u00a0 We are just simply saying that they were fine when they left us.\u00a0 We all have to work together to find out what the problem is to why these children might be regressing after they reach a certain grade level. We are not saying that you have done, but together let’s work and design a curriculum.\u00a0 That will take a child from Head Start to Pre-K, to Kindergarten, elementary school, and on up through high school and college.\u00a0 That is the process that we have now.\u00a0 There are two Head Start programs in the State of Mississippi that is involved with this particular project in this study.\u00a0 That is Mississippi Action for Progress and also Bolivar County Head Start.\u00a0 We look at this at a great opportunity to really improve the education system for the entire state of Mississippi not just in Head Start but the public schools.\u00a0 It is also in the college and the universities.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 As you look back on your role from your early experience with in the public schools through your present roles in Head Start and your present role in education and community action, could you just reflect on not just the importance to you, but its impact with in the community?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Well as we have operated the years that we have in Bolivar County it has been very necessary to establish a maintain good relationships with all the entities within the county, which is the political jurisdiction, board of supervisors, all of town mayors, library systems, school systems, universities here, and the chamber of commerce.\u00a0 To establish this relationship with the businesses, which is a private sector, and we want to establish with the newspapers or what have you.\u00a0 So that everyone can understand what the plight is, and what the opportunities are if we all support this particular effort for a better community we will have.\u00a0 So we work toward maintaining this relationship.\u00a0 We have worked towards public relations in terms of newsletters, in terms of news media, in terms of the television stations; they have all been invited.\u00a0 They all participate willingly in our program.\u00a0 My efforts have been too make absolutely sure that our program is as operating in accordance with all the federal regulations and all the state and local regulations.\u00a0 All of the services that we are responsible for providing for children, I do.\u00a0 I am very thankful, and very appreciative to be in a situation where we have this kind of support.\u00a0 I am very fortunate to have grant \u201cT\u201d board of directors who support the program.\u00a0 They are committed to the program.\u00a0 That is the Community Action Agency Board of Directors.\u00a0 We are very fortunate to have the Head Start policy council that represents all of the parents in the whole county who support the program.\u00a0 They operate in accordance with in the regulations of the programs.\u00a0 We recognize what those regulations are.\u00a0 We are very fortunate to have just a wonderful staff.\u00a0 These are the people I work with who are very committed, competent, and reliable.\u00a0 They know what to do.\u00a0 It takes all of this.\u00a0 It takes all of this for teamwork.\u00a0 We are very fortunate to have all of that. \u00a0That is the thing that keeps us moving forward.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 And the community is fortunate to have its leadership, isn\u2019t?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 I would hope so.\u00a0 Well I have tried to demonstrate that leadership ability, even though I don\u2019t call that.\u00a0 I call it trying to do a good job.\u00a0 Anyway we got just tremendous community support even on our board of directors.\u00a0 We have a board of supervisors some appointees.\u00a0 We have town mayors serving on our board of directors.\u00a0 We have a relationship with all of the school districts in the county.\u00a0 We have what we call a partnership agreement.\u00a0 We have a partnership agreement with all of the school districts in the county to collaborate and exchange resources.\u00a0 It works fine.\u00a0 You just couldn\u2019t ask for anything better.\u00a0 We have not been, and with Delta State University.\u00a0\u00a0 The time we need for meeting space or conference or what have you, that university is accessible to us.\u00a0 Matter of fact just the second week in September of this year, our pre-service training program at Delta State University in which all of our staff people were welcomed by the president of the university, Dr. Potter.\u00a0 We are very much a part of the community.\u00a0 We are very much a part of it.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 This is the last question, it has to do with your family.\u00a0 Could you name your wife and family?\u00a0 The question has to do with what you would want for your family based on your experiences in life.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Absolutely let me go let me make one other statement if you don\u2019t mind.\u00a0 I worked in this program as Head Start director for about twenty-eight years.\u00a0 The executive director became ill, and he could not work.\u00a0 We continued to operate the agency.\u00a0 We have had that relationship all of these years.\u00a0 Finally with the director passed on, this was about five years ago.\u00a0 The board of directors of the agency offered that job to me as the Community Action Agency\u2019s Executive Director.\u00a0 Now the make up of these programs, you have to understand comes from different funding sources.\u00a0 Like Head Start is funding directly by the federal government.\u00a0 The Community Action Agency comes under the Social Services block grant.\u00a0 They are funding directly by the state, which does not carry the same benefits.\u00a0 I had that longevity with Head State.\u00a0 I had my love for it.\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t ready to turn that a loose, but being in the agency that is operating in one county.\u00a0 The Board of Directors felt and said that well we realize that you have been a major player in the whole agency anyway.\u00a0 So we stradegized and we restructured and reorganized the agency where I accepted the position of Executive Director for the Agency continuing with my Head Start responsible.\u00a0 You might say it\u2019s a dual role, but if you look at it in terms of one position carrying out.\u00a0 They do a role.\u00a0 It could be a dual role, and making it into one role.\u00a0 Now as it relates to family, as I mentioned early, during the courtship and sweetheart days.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 The Sam Cook days?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Yeah, the Sam Cook days or the Jerry Buckman or what have you.\u00a0 Our first son was came from those days.\u00a0 Our first son, naturally we had to name him after me.\u00a0 He had to become a junior.\u00a0 I will apologize to him since that time because who wants to go around in this county with a name like Billy Joe McCain Jr.\u00a0 That was my first son.\u00a0 Then afterwards, we had a second son, and his name is Derrick.\u00a0 After that we had a third child, a daughter.\u00a0 Her name is Cheryl.\u00a0 My kids all grew up here in Cleveland.\u00a0 They attended school here in Cleveland.\u00a0 My children were taught to be honest.\u00a0 They were taught to be appreciative of what they have, but at the same time never to shun anyone who may have had less.\u00a0 Every person is a human being.\u00a0\u00a0 You have to respect people particularly older people.\u00a0 You are here, and you are part of the school.\u00a0 You are part of the community here, and you fit right into that as a child.\u00a0 Because of the fact that you are fortunate enough to have parents who are education and in professional positions, it does not give you advantage over anyone that may have been less fortunate.\u00a0 You see you have got to understand that it has not always been this way for us.\u00a0 I came from a single parent home.\u00a0 My mother worked as a maid.\u00a0 Now if I am going to shun or look back at anybody, who may be my professional at this particular time, that means that I don\u2019t like my mama.\u00a0 So that is not what it is all about.\u00a0 It is about being able to work with people and to recognize people for what they are.\u00a0 They want you to respect them, and respect their rights the same that you expect them to respect yours.\u00a0 You never had a problem with my children growing up here.\u00a0 They were children with in the community.\u00a0 During school desegregation, here in the Cleveland school district, they decided that in order to integrate the schools, they would use a zone.\u00a0 They used this railroad track that runs north and south as zoning for this school district.\u00a0 All of the children that lived on the East Side of the track of the tracks will attend the schools the schools of the track.\u00a0 All of the kids that lived on the West sides of the tracks would attend the schools on the West Side of the tracks.\u00a0 Now most of the white people lived on the West Side of the track.\u00a0 There were lots of white people that lived on the East Side of the track, but after the school zoning they moved to the West Side of the track.\u00a0 As far as minorities were concerned they had freedom of choice to attend school on either the East Side or the West Side.\u00a0 So my two boys decided that it was their choice, they decided that they would continue the schools on the East Side.\u00a0 My daughter decided to attend that she would attend on the West Side.\u00a0 She did.\u00a0 She did well.\u00a0 Even though there is still a need for social improvements here.\u00a0 I will have to say my daughter attended school and lots of kids there were well received and did quite well there.\u00a0 There was no problem there.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 They went on in school?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh yes they went on in school.\u00a0 My oldest son attended school at Alcorn State University.\u00a0 Afterwards, after he graduated from Alcorn, he worked at Cohoma Community College for a while.\u00a0 Then he went to graduate school at Delta State University where he received his masters in Business Administration.\u00a0 He left here and he went on to Washington, where he now works for the Department of F.A.S. inspector\u2019s general\u2019s office.\u00a0 He has been there for about fifteen years.\u00a0 My next son, Derrick, attended school at Tennessee State University.\u00a0 He now lives in Cincinnati, Ohio, where he works for a computer company there.\u00a0 He was married.\u00a0 His wife and he were divorced.\u00a0 We have two grandchildren there.\u00a0 They are very much devoted to their father and he to them.\u00a0 Matter of fact so much that every weekend holiday; they are right here in Cleveland.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He and the kids are right here.\u00a0 We are real grateful for that.\u00a0 My oldest son, he and his wife are expecting their first child now.\u00a0 My daughter, Sheryl, also attend Delta State University, where she received her degree in Biology.\u00a0 She lives in Memphis, TN now.\u00a0\u00a0 She has one son, and of course her and her husband also divorced.\u00a0 She has one son.\u00a0 She worked there in Memphis as lab technician for Saran Plow Mabaline division as a chemist.\u00a0 She has health problems as well as the little boy does.\u00a0 He has a severe case of asthma, allergies, and she has respiratory problems also.\u00a0 It is very difficult for here to maintain a job, a clock job.\u00a0 So she is now working in real estate.\u00a0 She is a real estate sales person in Memphis now.\u00a0 The little boy is twelve years of age.\u00a0 He does quite well in school, but he is unable to attend school sometimes because of his illness.\u00a0 He has prolonged absentee for periods of time.\u00a0 As which we have to put him, into a private school because of that.\u00a0 He is improving.\u00a0 He has excellent grades.\u00a0 Matter of fact he did attend public schools at one time.\u00a0 If I am not mistaken when he was about forth grade, he was tested.\u00a0 He aptitude his scores were in the upper 99% percentile.\u00a0 He does quite well, but it is because of his health.\u00a0 He is limited in terms of his extra curriculum activities.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Tell me about his grandmother?<\/p>\n

BM: \u00a0Oh okay, she taught school.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 This is?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Sylvia, my wife, the Sam Cook and Jerry Buckler, they were my promotions.\u00a0 She is originally from Doddsville, MS.\u00a0 She too was raised by her grandparents, aunts.\u00a0 Her mother was in Detroit.\u00a0 She attended school, and she graduated from school at Greenwood.\u00a0 She attended Valley State University.\u00a0 She was Ms. Valley State University.\u00a0 She also went to Delta State University where she got her masters degree in elementary education.\u00a0 So she worked here in the Cleveland School district for thirty something years.\u00a0 She retired.\u00a0 I guess she has been retired now for about five years now.\u00a0 So she is a proud grandmother now.\u00a0 You might say of three grandchildren.\u00a0 The fourth one is expected to come here in January.\u00a0 She enjoys now what she is doing.\u00a0 That is basically housekeeping, and traveling with me occasionally.\u00a0 She too has an illness.\u00a0 She has a very bad allergy problem and sinus.\u00a0 So she is always suffering with those conditions.\u00a0 They are not really life threatening, but they can make you so miserable.\u00a0 She is battling with that a lot of times.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 But she survived life with the busy husband?<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Oh absolutely, and she is still doing so.\u00a0 She survived, and she has been very supportive of what I do.\u00a0 She is very complementary.\u00a0 She understands.\u00a0 There are even times when I have to be away for long periods of time, she doesn\u2019t let that be a problem.\u00a0 Though sometimes she will voice her dissatisfaction.\u00a0 She understands that I have a job to do, and that disatessitates me.\u00a0 I am away from home pretty often. Sometimes when she travels with me, she enjoys it.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 I want to thank you for this interview.\u00a0 I am especially pleased to have talked informally about.\u00a0 If you promise on this tape to give me an interview on Grenada that will include the civil rights movement, this next time I will do it at your connivance.\u00a0 You have cleared the shelve on this one.\u00a0 I want to thank you for that.\u00a0\u00a0 I would like to do, it want be a part of this interview.\u00a0 It will be a civil rights interview.\u00a0 I realize how important your observations would be.\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 I will be more and glad to do that.\u00a0 This has been a wonderful experience for me.\u00a0 When you call me this morning and introduced yourself as Mr. Long, that was a connection right then.\u00a0 That was a connection right then.\u00a0 I realize that we just had to come together.\u00a0 So I changed my schedule around.\u00a0 I don\u2019t regret it at all.\u00a0 I have enjoyed meeting you.\u00a0 Even though I feel that I know you.\u00a0 I know you.\u00a0 I have enjoyed being with you.\u00a0 You openness, canniness, and you warmth and sincere approached to what it is that you are doing, I am just very elated.\u00a0 I certainly look forward to a long-standing friendship and relationship.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 You can count on it.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 So any time that you are in the area or nearby, or any time we can be of any assistance to you, you just feel free to pick up that phone and call us.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Alright, now I have that on tape.<\/p>\n

BM:\u00a0 Great, very good that is a commitment that is a promise to you.<\/p>\n

WL:\u00a0 Thank you so much.\u00a0 You are a good brother.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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