{"id":9323,"date":"2023-04-20T19:16:56","date_gmt":"2023-04-20T19:16:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/?page_id=9323"},"modified":"2023-06-19T20:52:17","modified_gmt":"2023-06-19T20:52:17","slug":"gerald-chatham-oral-history","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/gerald-chatham-oral-history\/","title":{"rendered":"Gerald Chatham Oral History"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][divider line_type=”No Line”][vc_column_text]\n

Gerald W. Chatham, Sr. Oral History<\/span><\/h1>\n[\/vc_column_text][divider line_type=”No Line”][page_submenu alignment=”center” sticky=”true” bg_color=”#008542″ link_color=”#ffffff”][page_link link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/manuscripts-and-guides\/” title=”Manuscripts & Subject Guides<\/strong>” id=”1682018233290-9″ tab_id=”1682018233290-0″] [\/page_link][page_link link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/guides-to-the-collection-page\/” title=”Collections Portal<\/strong>” id=”1682018233305-2″ tab_id=”1682018233306-3″] [\/page_link][page_link title=”Visit<\/strong>” id=”1682018233318-7″ tab_id=”1682018233318-3″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/visit\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Make a Request<\/strong>” id=”1682018233329-3″ tab_id=”1682018233330-0″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/requests\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”About Us<\/strong>” id=”1682018233340-0″ tab_id=”1682018233340-3″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments-archives-museum-about-us\/”][\/page_link][page_link title=”Yearbooks Online<\/strong>” id=”1682018233353-8″ tab_id=”1682018233353-4″ link_url=”https:\/\/www.deltastate.edu\/library\/departments\/archives-museum\/yearbooks-alumni-magazines-delta-state-histories\/”][\/page_link][\/page_submenu][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_spacing=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_column_text]Gerald Chatham Oral History Interview\u00a0\u00a0 OH# 293\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 January 19, 2005<\/strong><\/p>\n

Transcribed by W. Ray<\/strong><\/p>\n

Interviewed by Dr. Henry Outlaw and assisted by Bootsie Lyon<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 We are in the office of Mr. Gerald Chatham, an attorney, here in Hernando, MS.\u00a0 This is January 19, 2005.\u00a0 We will begin our interview on the Emmett Till Case. Gerald, first of all I want to thank you for doing this, for giving us this interview.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 It has been a pleasure.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I guess the first question I would have would be how old were you\u2026I tell you what, let\u2019s back up and talk about your dad.\u00a0 Your dad was the District Attorney in this case.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Correct.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 If you could just tell me a little bit about your dad and being District Attorney and maybe how he came to have this case, and we will go from there.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 I will try not to get emotional.\u00a0 When they interviewed me I was telling you before for PBS, I kinda got a little emotional cause I idolized my dad.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I can imagine.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I was the only boy of four children.\u00a0 I was the youngest.\u00a0 Anyway, Daddy grew up in Hernando, he was born in 1906, February 17, 1906.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t say they were poor, but his father died two weeks before he was born.\u00a0 And his mother remarried and then my grandmother had three other children by her second husband.\u00a0 My daddy was relegated to the role of a red headed stepchild.\u00a0 Not to say he was mistreated.\u00a0 He really wasn\u2019t mistreated.\u00a0 He had an older brother that was tragically killed so daddy grew up, you know, without any real assistance from his stepfather.\u00a0 Went to Ole Miss, worked his way through college and was a charter member of Pike Fraternity at Ole Miss.\u00a0 Married my mother.\u00a0 Soon thereafter was elected, I think he was still in law school when he was elected to the Mississippi House of Representatives.\u00a0 Daddy was an excellent speaker and had a wonderful command of the English language.\u00a0 And if you heard any tapes of his voice, which I have listening to some of these things, had a real distinguished southern type of manner of speech.\u00a0 He could spellbind an audience with his gift.\u00a0 He was an English major in college, and some of his letters, particularly some of those he wrote to his mother when he was in college, are just wonderful.\u00a0 The real expressions are a command that I don\u2019t have. I wish I did.\u00a0 Then briefly -his political career.\u00a0 He was elected county attorney and then elected county superintendent of education.\u00a0 Defeated an incumbent that was county superintendent of education.\u00a0 I think it was 1941 that there was a special election for district attorney.\u00a0 Jamie Whitten from Tallahatchie County was the district attorney and he got elected in a special election to congress.\u00a0 Then they had a special election for district attorney.\u00a0 Daddy was elected District Attorney in 1941 and served in that capacity until he didn\u2019t run for election in 1955.\u00a0 The year that they had this trial.\u00a0 Daddy\u2019s health at this time had begun to deteriorate.\u00a0 He suffered from high blood pressure and probably nowadays with the medical advances and things that they have nowadays of lowering cholesterol and lowering blood pressure \u2013 would have lived another twenty-five or thirty years.\u00a0 But they didn\u2019t have anything in those days to lower his blood pressure.\u00a0 He had violent nose bleeds and things and he had to go to the hospital and they had to pack his head in ice.\u00a0 And then he had a fatal heart attack on October 9 I think it was in 1956.\u00a0 They had just opened Producers Gin here which was a very modern state of the art cotton gin.\u00a0 He was a shareholder and he introduced the speakers and everything.\u00a0 He was not feeling well and went home and laid down in the bed and had a fatal heart attack and died that afternoon about 5:30.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Now how old was he?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 He was fifty years old.\u00a0 The year before that was when the Till trial was had.\u00a0 My first memory of that was people, my two, three older sisters, one married; I think in 1955 I believe my older sister got married that year.\u00a0 And she married a veterinarian here and they live here in Hernando.\u00a0 But at that time he had to go into the Air Force.\u00a0 I won\u2019t say he was drafted, but he, they got him.\u00a0 And he had to go into the Air Force.\u00a0 They moved to Boise, Idaho to the Air Force base out there where he was the post veterinarian.\u00a0 Then I had an older sister who was at Ole Miss and during the Till trial my youngest, baby sister Carole, who has since passed away this past October, was a senior in high school during the trial.\u00a0 So, I was kinda, there was six years difference between my, \u00a0I call my baby sister, Carole, and myself.\u00a0 You know a kid eleven years old you are kinda in your own world.\u00a0 You know I was more interested in what Mickey Mantle\u2019s batting average was then I was anything else.\u00a0 (laughs)<\/p>\n

I can remember John Chancellor, it is as vivid as it can be in my mind; John Chancellor coming to our house and interviewing my family, you know with all the lights and television cameras and stuff.\u00a0 They never aired any of that but, I remember them going out to our farm.\u00a0 My dad was a lawyer and a farmer.\u00a0 He had acquired through hard work about a thousand acres of land.\u00a0 I think he bought the last like 160 acres in 1952 and anyway, let me guess conservatively, probably ten families living on our farm at that time in kind of a share cropping thing.\u00a0 We farmed cotton and corn mainly.<\/p>\n

HO: \u00a0Was that delta land or in the hills?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 No it was hill land.\u00a0 I live out there now.\u00a0 It was, a lot of bottomland, it was good land.\u00a0 Daddy loved cows and we had cattle and we had cotton and we had corn and we had mules.\u00a0 I remember when we bought our first tractor how proud daddy was of that doggone tractor.\u00a0 John Chancellor went out there and interviewed the help on our place.\u00a0 He thought that was a real twist that the\u00a0 white prosecutor was going to prosecuting white men for killing a black boy.\u00a0 And he was going to see what the black people on our place thought about all that.\u00a0 And much to his chagrin, those black people out there thought my daddy was the greatest thing this side to Jesus Christ.\u00a0 My daddy was a fair man.\u00a0 He loved people.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t matter about what color your skin was.\u00a0 We were raised to treat everybody alike, everybody equal.\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s just the way he lived his life, he treated those black people with respect.\u00a0 They loved him.\u00a0 Matter of fact, he helped them..\u00a0 A guy named C.G. Rayborn.\u00a0 C.G. was kind of daddy\u2019s foreman.\u00a0 C.G. was uneducated but a good man and hard worker.\u00a0 Daddy helped him buy some land; I think helped him buy 80 acres of land.\u00a0 C.G. had twelve children and I think about eight of them graduated from college.\u00a0 We were always real proud of C.G. \u00a0Until the day he died, he always loved our family, loved my dad.\u00a0 Going back they didn\u2019t that air interview either because the black people didn\u2019t say what they wanted them to say.\u00a0 (laughs)\u00a0 But I can just remember, Daddy didn\u2019t talk about his work at home, he didn\u2019t bring it home with him.\u00a0 But we would sit on our front porch and he would talk to me about things.\u00a0 I can remember us talking about the Till trial and the facts of what happened.\u00a0 You know daddy didn\u2019t commute.\u00a0 Sumner was a long way away then.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That\u2019s right it was; roads were bad.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah, and he would drive down there and generally stay down there.\u00a0 And he stayed down there during that trial.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t drive back and forth.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 What was the district?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Same as it is now.\u00a0 It\u2019s a little skewed now because of the population of Desoto County, but it goes right down 55.\u00a0 It\u2019s Desoto, Tate, Panola, and then kind of does a tee, Yalobusha County and Tallahatchie County.\u00a0 Five counties.\u00a0 Same, you know when I was the district attorney.\u00a0 Same district.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Gerald when I called you to ask you if you would agree to an interview.\u00a0 I think I told you that I was reading about your dad late one night.\u00a0 That\u2019s when my wife and I read in the bed there, I told her I think I just found Atticus Finch.\u00a0 .<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah you told me that.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I was just wondering if that was an accurate assessment of your dad.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Well you know, the difference in daddy and Atticus was that Atticus kind of voluntarily took on the job.\u00a0 That was daddy\u2019s job.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That was his responsibility wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 That was his responsibility as district attorney.\u00a0 Although he could have gotten off the case.\u00a0 There were\u2026he had opportunities, the Governor had\u2026I have heard my granddaddy talk about it.\u00a0 My granddaddy tried to talk him into getting off the case because of his health.\u00a0 His health wasn\u2019t good.\u00a0 There\u2019s no doubt in my mind the trial really took a toll on him.\u00a0 You can look at the mail in that box.\u00a0 Some of it is good, but a lot is hate mail.\u00a0 That is something that just didn\u2019t happen in our society.\u00a0 Daddy did the right thing.\u00a0 I mean, Daddy was a Christian man.\u00a0 He went to church on Wednesday nights, went to Sunday school, Sunday, Sunday night.\u00a0 Not just him, his family went.\u00a0 Every Easter our family walked to Church.\u00a0 Held hands and walked to Church.\u00a0 Daddy was really a devout Christian man.\u00a0 He liked to take a drink of whiskey, ain\u2019t no doubt about that.\u00a0 Like a lot of us he\u2026<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Which Church was it?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 He was Methodist.\u00a0 The Church that he grew up in.\u00a0 What kills me nowadays is to see people give their children a choice about going to church or Sunday school.\u00a0 There wasn\u2019t any choice at my house; Sunday morning that was the Lord\u2019s Day; you got up and you went to Sunday school and Church and there wasn\u2019t any choice and I am very thankful for that, that discipline that he instilled in me.\u00a0 You know he was a heck of a lawyer.\u00a0 I have had countless, ever since I have been a lawyer; I had countless lawyers tell me what a fine lawyer he was.\u00a0 Had them tell me he was one of the top lawyers in the state.\u00a0 Best lawyer in North Mississippi.\u00a0 Best lawyer in the mid south.\u00a0 Was a gifted man in that regard.\u00a0 Very impeccable reputation.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 What do you think made him so good?\u00a0 Was it his work ethic, intellect, or a combination of both?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 You had to know his personality.\u00a0 When he died there were probably fifteen men came to the funeral that night\u2026.I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 It\u2019s alright.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 It\u2019s terrible.\u00a0 I\u2019m kind of sentimental.\u00a0 About fifteen people came to the funeral that night and told me that my daddy was their best friend\u2026.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But that\u2019s a wonderful memory to have.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That is.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I\u2019ll bet you haven\u2019t seen many sixty year old men cry?<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes I have.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0\u00a0 You are looking at one of them.\u00a0 Yeah, I am sentimental too, especially with regard to friends and family.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And I like that kind of person better.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Anyway, he had just a wonderful personality.\u00a0 Always a good word to say about everybody.\u00a0 He always looked for the best in people.\u00a0 He was an uplifter.\u00a0 He made people feel good about themselves.\u00a0 You know people came to our house and paid my mother money after his death that she knew nothing about, that he had loaned money too.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 If you can, can we focus on\u2026..<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 He grew up rough.\u00a0 During the depression.\u00a0 He appreciated a dollar.\u00a0 He appreciated people.\u00a0 I mean he was just a good man.\u00a0\u00a0 I had always felt deprived \u2018cause he died when I was so young.\u00a0 I had a chip on my shoulder for a long time about it.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Now how old were you?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I was eleven.\u00a0 But I was a pretty good football player and I used to cry before and after the games.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s a tough time for a boy to lose his dad.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Really is.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Really is.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Anyway.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I knew this was going to happen.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I suppose this is accurate.\u00a0 That after the trial that Mamie Till came up and told your Dad that he could not have done better.\u00a0 That she was pleased with\u2026<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Who did?<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0\u00a0 Mamie Till.\u00a0 That\u2019s reported in some of the literature that she did that.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah, I think that is accurate.\u00a0 The black community has always been very complimentary of my dad.\u00a0 Even the northern newspapers were; and of Judge Swango also, the way he conducted the trial.\u00a0 Sheriff Strider was another matter.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 What do you know of Robert Smith, the Prosecutor?\u00a0 He was from Ripley.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Well you know he was from Ripley.\u00a0 Daddy called him Bobby I think. They were contemporaries.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know whether Daddy and Bobby were in school together, or they were good friends though.\u00a0 Bobby Smith was a tall, dark, wavy black hair, nice looking guy.\u00a0\u00a0 I can remember at Daddy\u2019s funeral that we pulled up at the Church and Bobby came up to the car and embraced Mama you know.\u00a0 His son, Jak, practices law in Tupelo now.\u00a0 J-A-K.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Will you hand me that tablet please so I can make a note or two as we are chatting.\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Excuse me go ahead.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Anyway Jak lives in Tupelo.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That\u2019s Jak Smith?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Jak Smith.\u00a0 J-A-K Smith.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And Bobby was just a well know trial lawyer.\u00a0 Daddy had asked the Governor to appoint somebody to assist him, or the Attorney General; I don\u2019t remember exactly who made the appointment.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I think that is right.\u00a0 I think the Governor did that.\u00a0 If the literature is right on that.\u00a0 I guess that was Governor Hugh White?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Hugh White or Fielding Wright, I\u2019m not sure which.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It was White I think.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 You mentioned some of the letters that your dad got.\u00a0 I guess some supportive and some not supportive.\u00a0 Maybe we can talk about that a little bit.\u00a0 I was just wondering about\u2026.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I think most of them were fairly favorable.\u00a0 There were those that people went to the trouble to going to the newspaper or magazine and cut out and paste them on the letter and some of them was \u201cnigger lover\u201d or stuff like that you know.\u00a0 Most of them were complimentary.\u00a0 A lot of it was just historical stuff.\u00a0 I think Daddy saw this as a conflict between his southern, I guess maybe I shouldn\u2019t say Southern, maybe I should say Mississippi heritage and upbringing, and doing the morally upright thing.\u00a0 I don\u2019t he ever hesitated.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 He fell down on the side of the right thing to do.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 As late as yesterday, I had Bill Luckett, lawyer at Clarksdale, he was asking about, a lot of stuff going on now about Emmett Till around you know.\u00a0 Jerry Mitchell at Clarion Ledger has done a lot of work on Emmett Till.\u00a0 I talked to Jerry lately.\u00a0 I was talking to Bill about it and of course Bill is a fine lawyer, his daddy was a fine lawyer, his granddaddy was a fine lawyer.\u00a0 I mean there is a fine heritage there and Bill said some really nice things about my daddy and how proud he was of my daddy\u2019s stance on this and just – \u00a0that\u2019s been the theme throughout my legal career has been other lawyer\u2019s have always told me that Daddy did the right thing, \u00a0how proud they were of him and it is something to be really proud of, and I have been.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 It is a great legacy to live.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 And the name of this law firm, Chatham Law Firm, that is named in his honor.\u00a0 Established in 1932, that\u2019s the year that he started practicing out there on the door.\u00a0 And his picture will always hang in here and I am very grateful that he gave me a heck of a legacy.\u00a0 Big shoes to fill.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 You know as I have gotten in to this case, it seems to be sorta two schools of thought as to what happened.\u00a0 Where Emmett Till was killed.\u00a0 Was it in\u00a0 Sunflower County or Tallahatchie County.\u00a0 Recently I went to Drew, a lot of friends live over there, and one of them took me to the site where supposedly he was killed in Sunflower County, on the Milam Farm.\u00a0 I won\u2019t say Milam Plantation because it was a very small farm I understand.\u00a0 So, as we dig into that, I think it becomes one of the issues.\u00a0 Where was he killed?\u00a0 And who was involved?\u00a0 I guess the next question I have is what do you think about the reopening of the case by the Justice Department?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to go anywhere, I don\u2019t see how it could.\u00a0 I mean, you know, everybody is dead for Christ\u2019s sake.\u00a0 I mean, you know the only person that I \u2013 let\u2019s see Milam and uh..<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 Bryant.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Bryant.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Their both dead right?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Um hum.\u00a0 And the lady that..she\u2019s still living.\u00a0 And Harvey Henderson, who was the attorney in Sumner was involved in that trial.\u00a0 I think those two are the only two people living that had anything at all to do with that case and that trial.\u00a0 Other than that young black man that now they\u2019ve found, well he\u2019s not young anymore, but he was young at the time.\u00a0 I just don\u2019t see how because of the legal problems that they are going to have of double jeopardy.\u00a0 What does it accomplish?\u00a0 I mean other than opening wounds.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know how the Emmett Till\u2019s family or heirs feel about that.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I kinda got mixed emotions about it.\u00a0 I guess the lawyer in me on one side says yeah, let\u2019s get to the bottom of it.\u00a0\u00a0 The lawyer on the other side says it\u2019s not going to be anything but a waste of taxpayers money cause you stir a pot and pull something out but what have you got?\u00a0 So, I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I think it is a little late \u2013 a lot late.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 Trail has gotten cold to hasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 You know one confessed after the trial.\u00a0 He sold his story to Life Magazine and\u2026<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Actually they both did.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 They both did?\u00a0 I was just thinking it was one of them.\u00a0 And sold his story to Life Magazine and confessed.\u00a0 You know they have been tried and acquitted and I don\u2019t know how you try them again for murder, now you might try them again for something else, for kidnapping or something.\u00a0 Certainly because of double jeopardy you can\u2019t try them again for murder, regardless.\u00a0 It\u2019s not the first time that a guilty man has gone free.\u00a0 I have seen it happen.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 You know another thing that was interesting to me.\u00a0 I taught Forensic Science at Delta State for a number of years and there was very little physical evidence in that case.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 The gin fan and the barb wire..<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Gin fan, barb wire and the ring.\u00a0 That\u2019s about it.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And the ring yeah.\u00a0 You know nowadays that would have probably been a simple case.\u00a0 I mean with pathology and forensics what it is today and DNA.\u00a0 Their whole defense was that that was not Emmett Till.\u00a0 That was not.\u00a0 I mean they would have the body identified in 48 hours.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And dental records and DNA and whatever they might have had.\u00a0 You know, I, I mean, how many times in the last 10 or 15 years have you seen them not be able to identify a body?<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t happen anymore.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t happen.\u00a0 Too much there with all the modern scientific evidences available now, I mean evidence gathering devices that they have.\u00a0 I think it would have just been a slam dunk.\u00a0 And as many witnesses that they had to it at that time.\u00a0 And of course people were afraid.\u00a0 People were afraid to come forward to testify.\u00a0 They knew that they could be next.\u00a0 Their family could be next.\u00a0 I think several of the witnesses even moved away.\u00a0 The black family that testified, Mose..help me here.<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0 Mose Wright.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Mose Wright.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Mose Wright.\u00a0 Didn\u2019t he move away after that?<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0 He moved off to Chicago I think immediately.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 So you know people, you know, it is so foreign to the way I was raised.\u00a0 Because nobody in DeSoto County, the people that I grew up around, they didn\u2019t have, that kind of thinking wasn\u2019t around here.\u00a0 DeSoto County, uh Tallahatchie County was different.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah, I think so.\u00a0 I grew up in north (inaudible)<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 It was still different when I went there in 1972 as the brand new elected district attorney.\u00a0 It was still different.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah I think it is still that way.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I\u2019m not going to call any names but I had a black man that killed another black man in Charleston.\u00a0 It was out and out murder.\u00a0 A man was sitting in a car and a man walked up to an open window and stuck a gun to the back of the man\u2019s head and killed him.\u00a0 And the accused lawyer wanted to give him a suspended sentence.\u00a0 I said are you crazy?\u00a0 Not as long as I am District Attorney that is not going to happen.\u00a0 And an elected official came to me and said, Gerald it is just a nigger killing another nigger.<\/p>\n

HO and L:\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And I thought to myself, good gosh almighty, what have I gotten into down here.\u00a0 In 1970.\u00a0 And I don\u2019t use that word, I am just quoting what people said.\u00a0 Anyway, that kind of thinking didn\u2019t go on here.\u00a0 And I am proud of that.\u00a0 But you know, I remember growing up, we had the Klan, but there was one man in the eastern part of this county that was reportedly the head of the Klan in Desoto County.\u00a0 They were never visible, nobody ever said anything, and the old guy died, and you know, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 No crosses burned.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That was the end of it.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I guess that was the end of it.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Do you think your daddy ever had any fear during the course of the trial?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think so.\u00a0 Daddy was a – during the Depression Daddy fought \u2013 was a prize fighter professionally for money.\u00a0 I mean, he could take care of himself pretty good.\u00a0 I think that is where the Chatham children, and I\u2019m talking about me and four sisters, three sisters, and all of our children, we call it the Chatham spunk.\u00a0 I think that is where we got it.\u00a0 I think if my daddy thought he was right that he would fight a buzz saw.\u00a0 (laughs)<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Is that right?\u00a0 (laughs)<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 No, I don\u2019t think he was ever afraid.\u00a0 I think he may have been concerned about his family.\u00a0 But I don\u2019t think he was personally ever afraid.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Any calls to the house?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Oh yeah, there were calls.\u00a0 People would call and hang up.\u00a0 People would say things like \u201cyou\u2019re next.\u201d\u00a0 Oh yeah, there was stuff like that all the time.\u00a0 Some of that mail was, I think, pretty well dismissed.\u00a0 I mean nobody certainly made any threats that could be identified or anything.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think there were any serious threats ever.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 If there is a transcript of that trial I don\u2019t know where it is, do you?\u00a0 I was told there was one in Charleston and I went over there and it turned out to be a scrap book.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 J.W. Kellum had a copy of the transcript.\u00a0 J.W. has since died.\u00a0 There is one that is in, that I am told, maybe I shouldn\u2019t be telling this but I don\u2019t care, the FBI has one.\u00a0 And I have been told that, I don\u2019t guess I was told that in confidence, I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I expressed my desire to that person at the FBI that I would like a copy of one when all that is said and done that I was assured that I would get a copy.<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0 I read in some of the literature that it was not required that a transcript of the trial was kept in Mississippi unless the verdict is appealed.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Well, I don\u2019t think there is.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that there is any requirement that the transcript be kept by the court reporter.\u00a0 I think it is kinda up, I\u2019m not real familiar with court reporter laws, I don\u2019t know how long they are required to keep a trial.\u00a0 I really don\u2019t know.\u00a0 But I know they are not required to transcribe it.\u00a0 Certainly.\u00a0 Somebody probably asked that that would be transcribed and you know nowadays a court reporter comes in here and sets up a little machine like that and one of these computerized stenographic shorthand machines.\u00a0 And they sit here and type the transcript while we are talking.<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0 That\u2019s amazing isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 You know in a matter of (tape cuts off)<\/p>\n

(Other side of tape)<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 \u2026\u2026good therapy.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I think it is.\u00a0 And it\u2019s not Emmett Till that I get emotional about, it is my father\u2019s memory and things that I get emotional about.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 Sure.<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0\u00a0 But I think talking about our memories keeps things alive.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I think that is a real valuable oral history.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And I have done a lot of research, not on Emmett Till but on my dad\u2019s background and everything, his political career.\u00a0 Just so I would know, just so I could pass that on.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Gerald, I want you to tell us about Shep.\u00a0 (laughs) When I read that, I loved that story.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Well you know a good trial lawyer is always going to have a story to tell.\u00a0 The best final, closing arguments that generally a lawyer can relate the facts of a case to a particular story that has some human interest appeal.\u00a0 We all try to do that as trial lawyers.\u00a0 I have never used the Shep story but I have used similar ones.\u00a0 I had a dog when I was here in town named Shep.\u00a0 Shep I got as a little puppy.\u00a0 He was a dog, he wasn\u2019t any type of particular breed or anything.\u00a0 But he was big and about that tall and he was just fuzzy.\u00a0 I mean he was just fuzzy!\u00a0 But that was my dog you know, old Shep.\u00a0 And he had I guess some shepherd in him, and I guess that is where the name Shep came from.\u00a0 And we lived right here on Highway 51 a couple of blocks north of the square.\u00a0 And that was the main thoroughfare.\u00a0 And one afternoon-and it probably wasn\u2019t very long before this -, may have been a year before this trial, probably fresh on daddy\u2019s mind.\u00a0 One afternoon after school somebody called the house and said there is a dog up here on the highway and it looks like Gerald\u2019s dog.\u00a0 So I don\u2019t know, mother told me somebody told it, and I went running up there and laying in the middle of highway 51 was Shep.\u00a0 I picked up and brought him back to the house and his blood all over me. \u00a0And I was of course – you see how emotional I am, I was all to pieces.\u00a0 I got the shovel and buried Shep.\u00a0 Then got in the bed and cried myself to sleep.\u00a0 It was quite a tragedy.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t want another dog for a long time.\u00a0 Matter of fact, I don\u2019t remember the next dog I had until I acquired a bird dog or two.\u00a0 But a pet, I don\u2019t think I had another one till I was an adult.\u00a0 It was very traumatic for me.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I think it was great the way he wove that into the story.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 It was.\u00a0 I had heard that before.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I read also that during that summer, especially among the blacks and some whites too, that there was not a dry eye.\u00a0 That it was a very emotional summary that your dad gave.\u00a0 Would you like to comment on that?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I don\u2019t know anything about that.\u00a0 But I just know that having heard stories about some of his other trials.\u00a0 I know he defended a man one time here in the courthouse.\u00a0 He had the man bring his family and the man had a little girl that was real pretty.\u00a0 Daddy went out and got the little girl and held her in his arms during his closing arguments.\u00a0 And he was crying, the jury was crying, and the judge was crying.\u00a0 The theme was that you\u2019re not going to put this man in the penitentiary and take this little girl\u2019s daddy away.\u00a0 And it worked.\u00a0 Like I said, he was a hell of a lawyer.\u00a0 (laughs)<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 He must have been.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 And daddy had a, he could really read people.\u00a0 You could not lie to him.\u00a0 Boy he would nail you so fast.\u00a0 I mean, he really believed in solid eye contact and that sort \u2013 things like that he taught all his children.\u00a0 You know about shaking hands and making eye contact.\u00a0 You know to this day I open the car door for women and I pull their chair out and when a woman walks into the room I stand up.\u00a0 They say you are such a gentleman \u2013 who raised you all that?\u00a0 I said well, my dad wouldn\u2019t tolerate any other way but second of all you have to understand, after he died I was raised by four women, so.\u00a0 (laughs)\u00a0 Golly.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Let\u2019s see. Sheriff Strider.\u00a0 I keep getting back to that.\u00a0 It is hard to believe that that went on.\u00a0 Looking through our eyes today at those times.\u00a0 That Sheriff Strider\u2026.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Those clips on that film has him live and in color, not in color, live, loud, \u201cnow you niggers sit over here, this is all reserved for the white folks.\u201d\u00a0 Right there on national television.\u00a0 Then there was something else, where he said, \u201cWe treat our niggers different down here.\u201d\u00a0 Or something like that I mean, on national television.\u00a0 I mean\u2026.<\/p>\n

BL\u00a0 :\u00a0 I know he said, \u201cwe ain\u2019t never mixed with ya\u2019ll and we ain\u2019t going to start now,\u201d I remember that being in there.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Do you have any opinions on the Sheriff?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I never knew Sheriff Strider.\u00a0 I knew his\u2026his name was Clarence Strider right?<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 I think that is correct.\u00a0 H.C.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 I\u2019ve known I think his son, was a State Senator Donald Strider, I think.\u00a0 Then he had another son, I think his name is Clarence.\u00a0 That may have been the sheriff down there for a short period of time.\u00a0 But I knew those people.\u00a0 I knew the family.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t want to voice an opinion of Sheriff Strider for the record.\u00a0 I don\u2019t even know what you all have seen.\u00a0 The sheriff I worked with down there was Sheriff Dogan.\u00a0 And then one term I worked with after Sheriff Dogan got beat, worked with a sheriff named Marion Fulks.\u00a0 Who was a retired highway patrolman.\u00a0 I don\u2019t even know what I have seen.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Lucy, do you have any questions?\u00a0 More questions?<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 So what I hear you saying is that you did not feel as a child any stress at home during the trial, which is amazing.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 I did not.\u00a0 I pattern my life after my dad\u2019s in that regard.\u00a0 But in most every regard.\u00a0 I don\u2019t take my work home.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have an office at the house.\u00a0 When I walk out that door I want it left here.\u00a0 And that is kinda the way he was.\u00a0 He liked to sit on his front porch \u2013 I never knew what was in the glass, but I knew.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 Relaxation.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 It was sipping time.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 That\u2019s just an example of the way he was.\u00a0 Growing up they had friends over, but we never saw a bottle.\u00a0 Us children never saw a bottle.\u00a0 It was not put on the table.\u00a0 And that is just the way he was.\u00a0 Oh, I saw him drink a beer one time.\u00a0 Like when we were going to the gulf coast.\u00a0 We went down there on vacation several times.\u00a0 And everything up here was dry and you didn\u2019t get to a wet county until you got down there somewhere around Winona or somewhere down in there.\u00a0 And he would always stop the car.\u00a0 And this was before air conditioning days.\u00a0 And we would stop and he\u2019d get out of the car and walk into this little roadside thing.\u00a0 And all us kids would say, \u201cMama where is daddy going?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cOh he\u2019s going in there\u2026.\u201d for something, I don\u2019t know, she would make an excuse.\u00a0 He\u2019d come out in about ten minutes and we\u2019d say, \u201cDaddy, what did you do in there?\u201d\u00a0 And he\u2019d say, he\u2019d always say, \u201cI went in there and got me a glass of sour buttermilk.\u201d\u00a0 (laughs)\u00a0 And he was going in getting him a beer.\u00a0 Going in drinking him a beer.\u00a0 (laughs)\u00a0 You know that was one of the things that I always felt deprived of. I only knew him as a daddy, I never knew him as a man.\u00a0 I always hated that.\u00a0 That\u2019s why I spent a lot of time researching his career and dates and things, and I am pretty familiar, well I am very familiar with his political career.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 It has sort of filled in the gaps for you hasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Um hum.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 Well as my grandparents who raised me, my grandmother used to say, he was a prince of a fellow.\u00a0 He sounds like he certainly was.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 I think so.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Gerald, did you say the FBI \u2013 have they interviewed you?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 On the phone, they said they are coming to interview me.\u00a0 But they have not yet.\u00a0 I\u2019ve told\u00a0 them \u2013 I\u2019ll be glad to talk to you, but I don\u2019t know what I am going to tell you that is going to help your investigation any.\u00a0 I\u2019ve told you about everything I know.\u00a0 They want to see my box.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know anything that I can help them with.\u00a0 I mean, really.\u00a0 I was an eleven year old kid.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Sure.\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 Like you say, your father didn\u2019t bring the work home so he didn\u2019t discuss that at the house did he?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 He really didn\u2019t.\u00a0 I can remember him asking me, telling me about the case, and asking me as he often did, do you think daddy doing the right thing.\u00a0 Of course, whatever daddy was doing was the right thing as far as I was concerned.\u00a0\u00a0 You know I am prejudiced, I mean I am not your typical kid.\u00a0 I never wanted to be a fireman, a cowboy, or superman or anybody like that.\u00a0 I never wanted to be anything but a lawyer like my daddy.\u00a0 It was just total\u2026.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0 Tremendous role model.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Oh yeah.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 So eleven year old is\u2026let\u2019s see, what grade would you be in at eleven years old?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Sixth grade.\u00a0 Because I was in the seventh grade when he died.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Any problems at school?\u00a0 Friends making comments or anything?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 No.\u00a0 There would have been a fight if there had.\u00a0 I don\u2019t ever remember any kid, or friend, or kid, or acquaintance or schoolmate saying anything derogatory about my dad, or about the Till Trial or anything.\u00a0\u00a0 I never heard one comment.\u00a0 I have seen them in print, but I never heard one.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 When you say in print, are you talking about the letters?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 In letters.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think –\u00a0 most everything I have seen has been very complimentary of him and how he handled the trial.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that I have seen anything.\u00a0 The negative comments are not\u00a0 about the prosecution, but the whole surrounding event, how something like that could have happened.\u00a0 That the people could be so filled with hate because of somebody\u2019s color that they would allow something like that to happen.\u00a0 And how you could just kill somebody because they did something that you didn\u2019t like and they are black and it\u2019s okay.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 If a white had done the same thing it probably very little would have been done.<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0 Probably said, \u201cBoy I\u2019ll tell your mama to wash your mouth out with soap, \u201c and that would have been the end of it.\u201d\u00a0 Well he must have done an impeccable job because with the emotions and all surrounding it, you probably would have heard some negative comments at some place.\u00a0 Cause that really speaks to me about what a wonderful job that he must have done.<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 (inaudible)\u2026.be in court, and they were prosecuted to the best of his ability and all the facilities that were at his disposal at that time were utilized and it was not a rubber stamp or a white wash.\u00a0 And I guess that is what I am most proud about is that he did the right thing.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Anything else?<\/p>\n

BL:\u00a0\u00a0 No, that I can think of.<\/p>\n

HO:\u00a0 Gerald, want to share anything else?<\/p>\n

GC:\u00a0 Well I have cried all over your tape recorder.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what else I can do.\u00a0 I will be happy to share my box with you.\u00a0 I thought it was here.\u00a0 When I looked yesterday afternoon I couldn\u2019t find it.<\/p>\n

(Tape cuts off here)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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